SFPro continually crashes - versions 14-18

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 11:34 AM

I've been dealing with continual crashing with multiple versions of Sound Forge Pro. This has been occurring since at least v14.

I have registered 64-bit versions of the following installed on my computer:

SFPro Suite 18.0.0 (build 21)
SFPro Suite 17.0.2 (build 109)
SFPro 16.1.2 (build 55)
SFPro 15.0 (build 161)
SFPro 14.0 (build 140)

The same behavior occurs in all of them. It doesn't happen all of the time, but it DOES happen about 80-90% of the time. Super frustrating.

Things that trigger a crash:

- placing a marker in a .wav file (ctrl-M)
- copy/pasting a selected region to a new file (double left click to select the region, ctrl-c, ctrl-e)
- placing the cursor anywhere in a file, then hitting the spacebar to start playing
- any other random editing activity (applying a fade, mixing copy/pasted sections, etc etc)
- trying to save a file (and then IF the program recovers it after the crash, you may or may not be able to save it, overwrite the existing file, etc)

If it crashes during a save on a recovered file, sometimes it will say that I don't enough room or access to save the file (when I clearly have access and terrabytes of room). At this point, the program will delete the recovered file. If I don't try to save it again, the file is lost.

All files being edited are 24/192 .wav format.

Each time this has happened, I've upgraded to the newest version, thinking that will fix things. It does for a while, then the same behavior starts again. SFPro18 Suite did the same thing from the beginning - it never has worked without issue.

I've been using SF since v4, back when it was owned by Sonic Foundry. It's a continual source of frustration. I use the program daily. If I'm lucky, I can save what I'm doing after every edit. I'm not always so lucky. Sometimes, it will crash as soon as I make ANY type of edit or try to save what I'm doing.

I'm running Win10 with all the latest updates, 64GB of RAM. I ran the memory diagnostics yesterday, thinking maybe I had some defective RAM - nope, all good there.

I've uninstalled and reinstalled all of the various versions of the programs multiple times.

I've also tried resetting all of the program defaults to no avail. All that does is make me redo all of my workspace changes. The crashes contnue.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to remedy this ongoing problem?

Thanks in advance,

SteveMTNO

Comments

emmrecs wrote on 2/12/2025, 1:33 PM

@SteveMTNO

I have no idea really whether, or not, this will effect any change for you, but have you tried recording with a lower sample rate?

192kHz is, in my opinion(!), overkill, sorry! Because of the limitations of human hearing AND of the frequency range which is reproducible by any known speaker/amplifier combination, allied to the fact that there is actually very little useful audio detail in frequencies much above, say, about 40kHz, or lower, you are, effectively, recording nothing which you can actually hear! .

Your 192kHz SR means you are encoding audio frequencies up to 96kHz; experiments with those frequencies suggest that much of the recorded data is then actually digital zeroes, or, in effect, "system noise". And the files produced by that SR will be correspondingly large.

Given the file size and consequent data throughput rate, are you sure your audio interface, whatever it might be, can safely and accurately handle such a high SR?

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Win 11 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 14700, 32 GB RAM, NVidia RTX 4060 and Intel UHD770 Graphics, Audient EVO 16 audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, Vegas Pro, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 2:03 PM

@SteveMTNO

I have no idea really whether, or not, this will effect any change for you, but have you tried recording with a lower sample rate?

192kHz is, in my opinion(!), overkill, sorry! Because of the limitations of human hearing AND of the frequency range which is reproducible by any known speaker/amplifier combination, allied to the fact that there is actually very little useful audio detail in frequencies much above, say, about 40kHz, or lower, you are, effectively, recording nothing which you can actually hear! .

Your 192kHz SR means you are encoding audio frequencies up to 96kHz; experiments with those frequencies suggest that much of the recorded data is then actually digital zeroes, or, in effect, "system noise". And the files produced by that SR will be correspondingly large.

Given the file size and consequent data throughput rate, are you sure your audio interface, whatever it might be, can safely and accurately handle such a high SR?

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your comments.

Yes (and I thought about putting something in my original post about this, but didn't), I've been working in 24/192 for years. I'm capturing hi-res vinyl rips. I capture everything at the highest possible rate that I can, so that I get the best possible source to work on.

Once all editing is done, then I downsample to 24/96 and 16/44 (I use iZotope for this).

I don't care about the large file size. Disc space is cheap.

So, yes, I'm aware that some may consider it overkill. For me, capturing at a lower sample/bit rate is not an option. The program was initially able to handle the 24/192 files without issue. The problems start occurring much later after the initial program install (except SF18Pro, which has given me the same problems from the time it was installed).

And yes, I'm positive that my recorder and audio interface can both handle 24/192. I've been using both for years.

The problem lies within the SF program(s) - and seem to have started once Magix took over, unfortunately.

I also use various versions of iZotope RX and have *never* had a problem with that. But I use that for different things in my workflow (click removal, and more 'intricate/intensive' processing). SF has always been my program of choice for the more basic processing tasks (such as those mentioned in my original post above).

SteveMTNO

SP. wrote on 2/12/2025, 2:39 PM

@SteveMTNO Which audio device driver are you using?

Are you using an audio interface with ASIO drivers?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 2:59 PM

@SteveMTNO Which audio device driver are you using?

Are you using an audio interface with ASIO drivers?

I'm using an NVIDIA High Definition Audio v1.3.39.14. I've been using it for about 4-5 years.

 

SP. wrote on 2/12/2025, 4:28 PM

@SteveMTNO This could be the cause of your crashes. I suspect that there is a problem with rendering and outputting such a high sample rate on the GPU audio output. Have you tried to simply use the Microsoft Sound Mapper and the audio output of your computer?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 4:48 PM

No, I haven't..

I've always thought of Microsoft Sound Mapper as nothing more than a fallback option for audio when no other options exist. Like a last resort.

Is there an easy way to switch back and forth to compare quality?

SP. wrote on 2/12/2025, 4:57 PM

@SteveMTNO Yes, it's a fallback. But if the crashes reduce, then we know the the device driver has something to do with them. Usually for such high sample rates I would recommend a 24 bit/192 kHz audio interface with ASIO drivers.

How do you connect your vinyl player to your computer? Via USB cable? Does the device even output in 24 bit / 192 kHz?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 5:37 PM

I'm using a PS Audio NPC (preamp) connected directly via shielded XLRs to a Tascam DR-100MKIII. Everything is native 24/192 and recorded direct to SD card.

It's definitely not the recording process.

The file(s) are copied at the OS level to the hard drive, then opened in SFPro.

Like I mentioned earlier - I'm using the same files in iZotope with no issues. This is an SF issue.

 

SP. wrote on 2/12/2025, 5:43 PM

@SteveMTNO Ok, but it still needs be played back on appropriate audio hardware.

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/12/2025, 6:02 PM

@SteveMTNO Ok, but it still needs be played back on appropriate audio hardware.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly, SP...

My computer should be able to handle anything that I throw at it. Like I said, I'm only having problems in SF - no other programs. The files work flawlessly everywhere else.

I'm able to play the files in SF. The problems only occur when I try to edit them in SF.

Is there an easy way to switch back & forth between the NVIDIA drivers and MSM?

SP. wrote on 2/12/2025, 6:42 PM

@SteveMTNO Open the Sound Forge preferences, switch the driver to Microsoft Sound Mapper, click Apply. If you want to switch back, select another driver and click Apply again.

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 7:50 AM

Just checked... looks like it's already set on Microsoft Sound Mapper...

I have the following options to choose from:
Microsoft Sound Mapper
Direct Sound Surround Mapper
Windows Classic Wave Driver
Realtek ASIO

I just checked iZotope - it's set to Realtek ASIO. I'll try that in SF and see if it makes any difference...

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 8:18 AM

OK, I was gonna wait till I got home from from work to check this, but...

Just tried my usual workflow, doing the things I mentioned in my original post and so far - no crashes.

The question is... why? What does the Realtek ASIO driver do?

I noticed it changed the playback device routing to "HD audio output 1 & 2".. could that be all I needed all along?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 4:29 PM

Nope - that didn't fix it.

Tried doing my usual workflow on a new file. Started off OK.. normalized the file, deleted some dead space, hit play and got a short buzz, then it crashed. Reopened the (recovered) file and tried to continue. Placed a marker, tried deleting the dead space again, and it crashed again.

This was in SFPro18. I didn't try the earlier versions...

SP. wrote on 2/13/2025, 4:59 PM

@SteveMTNO How large is the ASIO sample buffer? Please check the Realtek ASIO control panel (under the Audio settings > Advanced > Configure)

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 5:54 PM

@SteveMTNO How large is the ASIO sample buffer? Please check the Realtek ASIO control panel (under the Audio settings > Advanced > Configure)

SP. wrote on 2/13/2025, 6:15 PM

@SteveMTNO 88 samples is tiny. I recommend at least 512. Maybe 1024 or 2048. Does this help with stability?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 6:28 PM

@SteveMTNO 88 samples is tiny. I recommend at least 512. Maybe 1024 or 2048. Does this help with stability?

Thanks again for your replies, SP. I really appreciate it.

I'll try to play around with this some more tonight. Might not be till tomorrow tho. I'll reply back with what I find...

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/13/2025, 6:31 PM

I can't change the 88 PCM samples unless I change the ms... suggestions?

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/14/2025, 9:09 AM

I changed the buffering setting to 10ms, and then all the way up to 20ms. Didn't make any difference. Still crashes..

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/17/2025, 4:20 PM

Most of the time when the program crashes, it just closes. But every one in a while, it gives me a error dump.

 

Luckily (I guess), this was one of those times. Here's the error dump with as much detail as I can provide:

Extra Information
   File:                C:\Users\Steve Marshall\AppData\Local\MAGIX\SOUND FORGE Pro\18\dx_grovel_x64.log
   File:                C:\Users\Steve Marshall\AppData\Local\MAGIX\SOUND FORGE Pro\18\vst_grovel.log

Problem Description
   Application Name:    SOUND FORGE Pro 18
   Application Version: 18.0.0.21 x64
   Problem:             Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
   Fault Module:        C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.19041.4355_none_60b8b9eb71f62e16\COMCTL32.dll
   Fault Address:       0x00007FFB02335FEB
   Fault Offset:        0x0000000000065FEB

Fault Process Details
   Process Path:        C:\Program Files\SOUND FORGE\SOUND FORGE Pro 18\Forge18.exe
   Process Version:     18.0.0.21 x64
   Process Description: SOUND FORGE Pro 18
   Process Image Date:  2024-03-20 (Wed Mar 20) 17:15:52

Hopefully that will give someone here more of an idea as to what keeps causing this crashing problem....

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/17/2025, 4:27 PM

Extra Information
   File:                C:\Users\Steve Marshall\AppData\Local\MAGIX\SOUND FORGE Pro\18\dx_grovel_x64.log
   File:                C:\Users\Steve Marshall\AppData\Local\MAGIX\SOUND FORGE Pro\18\vst_grovel.log

Problem Description
   Application Name:    SOUND FORGE Pro 18
   Application Version: 18.0.0.21 x64
   Problem:             Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
   Fault Module:        C:\Windows\WinSxS\amd64_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.19041.4355_none_60b8b9eb71f62e16\COMCTL32.dll
   Fault Address:       0x00007FFB02335FEB
   Fault Offset:        0x0000000000065FEB

Fault Process Details
   Process Path:        C:\Program Files\SOUND FORGE\SOUND FORGE Pro 18\Forge18.exe
   Process Version:     18.0.0.21 x64
   Process Description: SOUND FORGE Pro 18

It just happened again. Looks like the same error....

SP. wrote on 2/17/2025, 4:49 PM

@SteveMTNO You can find reports for crashes that aren't caught by Sound Forge in the Windows Reliability Monitor. Maybe there is something different.

A driver problem would likely cause a crash in ntdll. I'm not sure why it crashes in comctl32. Maybe there is a problem with your Windows installation.

Try the following: To do this, open cmd.exe as administrator (it's best to enter cmd in the Windows search and then right-click the search result to start as administrator), type DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Restorehealth and press Enter.

Windows will now get an up-to-date restore image from the Microsoft servers.

If this is done type sfc /scannow and press Enter.

Windows will now check its system files and tries to repair them by using the new image.

See here for details:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/installing-updates-features-roles/fix-windows-update-errors

SteveMTNO wrote on 2/17/2025, 5:00 PM

I ran sfc /scannow right after I posted the most recent error dump and it found and fixed one error.

Should I still run DISM or just see if the SFC fixed things?