Hi All
On one of my ex-Super 8 films I have a large and annoying artefact in the upper middle (sky) area produced during filming or developing that lasts the entire 3 minutes - so Neat Video won't help. I'm using Cookie Cutter to swamp it, but can't get the colours to match better than roughly. Is there a way to identify in RGB terms what an existing point colour is on the film? Or in VPX? (I'm trying the latter out this month).
Thanks
Richard
Hi Richard.
Is it possible to see one frame as an example?
Is the sky roughly the same throughout? Does the camera move much during the clip?
Have you thought of putting the same clip directly onto a track above and moving the copy slightly to one side to use as a patch through the cookie cutter mask?
Ray.
Hi Ray
Here's the problem. This artefact goes all the way through the film, changing its shape and definition a little as it goes, but basically similar throughout. The sky does indeed vary from clip to clip within the film, and most of the clips are panned. I can always fix the sky on a clip to clip basis, if I just know how best to do it. What about chroma key as a means of implementing your idea - or is that what you have in mind?
This is a highly zoomed shot, hence not the greatest quality - but the problem is obvious.
Thanks for your help
Richard
First, do all your colour correcting or whatever you need to do and place the clip on the timeline.
Next make a copy of the clip on a track below that one in exactly the same place.
On the lower track add the cookie cutter and make it large enough to cover the offending marks but on a clear bit of sky using the position marker in the cookie cutter plugin. Only use the tiniest bit of feathering at the edges.
Move the position of the cookie cutter using the size position tool until it covers the marks.
If the mark moves around or gets larger or smaller you can move it around with the key editor to keep track of it.
If you need to move where the cookie cutter needs to be to get to a clear bit of sky use the cookie cutters positioning to move it.
How easy or hard that would be depends on the clips themselves. That I can't see.
At least the patch will move frame by frame in sync with the clip.
Ray.
Thanks, Ray - that worked perfectly once I got Cookie Cutter operating correctly. I had the same issue in both MEP and VPX, then suddenly it started working first in VPX and then in MEP. I must have been doing something wrong but I can't imagine what. Not the first time I've been magixed - and almost certainly not the last...
But a great solution - thanks again.
Cheers
Richard
Glad it worked Richard. Look carefully at the settings I used for the coolie cutter in the third image. Not the position ones though unless they were useful.
After I picked up the problem I duplicated your settings - but still no joy at first. All I could adjust were border settings and border size - and when I tried to change the x and y values they immediately reverted to 0.5. Then quite suddenly the correct display appeared after I closed and reopened VPX, again with the same settings. A mystery (to me, anyway), but all's well that ends well!
Hi Richard.
Just for future reference.
You can't put whole numbers into the cookie cutter position settings. Notice mine are something like 0.750.
The numbers always have to start with 0. I have no idea why. Get that correct first and then you can drag that around the image using the mouse cursor once you switch to the size / position plugin.
In a way it does the same job as a cloning tool in a photo editing package.
Ray.
Hi
. . . . when I tried to change the x and y values they immediately reverted to 0.5 . . . .
When entering a number value in many of the effect dialogs you must press the Enter key for it to be 'accepted' before moving on to the next number box.
John EB
Well, I'm not saying I definitely was pressing Enter, because in retrospect I guess it's possible I wasn't😕!
I realise now that the main problem I caused myself was not muting the first track, which explains why with the default settings I couldn't see any change to the image until I adjusted the border controls. Oh, well... But the result's good - thanks, Ray.
Richard
Hi Richard.
It's a bit of a one trick pony but is good for what it does. Much easier than trying to create a colour patch in this instance. Glad it's sorted.
Ray.
HIs there a way to identify in RGB terms what an existing point colour is on the film? Or in VPX?
Hi Richard,
To answer the above question, you can identify the colour by using one of the effects, like Glow or even the Titler. Open the Colour wheel interface, click on the eye dropper, and watch the values change as you run the mouse over an image. Select the one that you want and you'll have the settings for that colour, albeit from 0 to 1, not 0 to 255.
Of course, you'll have to undo whatever effect that you used to get the eye dropper. It would be nice to have this as a standalone, i.e. without an effect.
John CB
Hi John
I can't find this useful facility in MEP 2019, which I'm still using for the sole reason that Takes work in it. Looking at Magix's MEP New Features page I see they're touting the colour dropper as a new feature in MEP 2021 - so I'm out of luck there.
Richard
Hi
. . . . Nope, the image is from MEP2021 Plus . . . .
Can you clarify where the image is from, I have it available in different Hitfilm and NewBlue effects, and I not every one has these.
John EB
Hi John,
I applied the Glow effect in MEP2021, under Video Effects. It has the colour wheel and eyedropper.
John CB
Hi John CB.
What I'm wondering is because of the slider values showing rather than a 0-225 reading, what exactly can that information then be used for? Can those settings then be copied and pasted into another plugin or manually copied to a plugin that could do something such as a repair such as needed in this thread? I doubt they are meaningful numbers to use in a program like Photoshop where you may be able to make a colour patch.
Ray.
Hi John
Thanks for the clarification - as you can probably guess not an effect I use 🙁.
Hi Ray
The slider values 0 to 1 are confusing for people who come from a web or graphics background used to working with RGB in hex values or 0 - 255 per channel.
The problem with the issue @Richard-Curtis is having is that the right tools are not available in MEP or VPX.
The other option is to use other software to do the corrections like this, however that means learning other software.
Your work around is a lot quicker and works well for this particular issue.
John EB
Hi Ray,
The question was how to identify the colour. John EB is the expert here. I suppose that once you know what it is, and the sky in Richard's photo is about RGB= 0.55=140, 0.58=148, 0.48=122, then if you know what it should actually be, then you can make an overall adjustment to the image to correct the colour.
You could also use that colour to make something else the same, like text, or some other object.
You indicated that you could not use Neat Video to remove the hair, however, you should have been able to remove a lot of the grain. Has the image that you posted be somewhat denoised, or is it the original. I would apply NV to remove the noise.
Then, do as Ray mentioned to get rid of the hair, or use a mask.
Also, your image is quite dark and flat.
Here is what it looks like in the instruments in VPX.
Here is a modified version of the image done in VPX:
I see that my masking is still a little off in the sky.
And the corresponding instruments:
Hi John,
I don't use the Glow effect either, but it has the colour picker. The better alternative would be the one under Title.
I played around with Glow a bit to see what it does. On my desktop, VPX grinds to a halt. Ok on my Surface Pro.
Here is the image and the scopes with Glow % at 0.08, Intensity at 2.25, and the sky selected as the colour to Glow:
@CubeAce @Richard-Curtis @johnebaker
I just reread the initial message and I now understand that Richard just wanted to id a part of the sky with the same colour/hue. The sky colour varies a bit but not much. The trick with replacement using another part of the image is blend them, as you did, using feathering to hide the interface so that the two images are blended at the edge of the mask.
I used a mask with a soft edge instead of the Cookie Cutter, same thing. With a hard edge, blurring the mask makes the edge soft.
In my image, I cheated to get a more blue sky. I created a mask in Xara and applied it in VPX with a bit of blurring. I modified the sky of the part that shows in the mask to be more blue. Of course, this becomes difficult if the camera is panning. I would have to use the animation part of Xara, available from MEP/VPX, to do the rotoscoping by modifying the mask over time.
John CB
@browj2 @Richard-Curtis @johnebaker
Hi John CB.
You can feather quite effectively with the cookie cutter. The trick if there is one is to feather as little as possible for this blend.
Hi John
The image I originally posted is about as bad as it gets, which I see didn't escape your attention😀. Yes, I apply NV to virtually every Super 8 clip, but this image is raw without effects of any kind. I did the Cookie Cutter trick first, then saved the two video tracks and audio track as an MXV movie before stabilising and applying NV. I do prefer the original colour, though, which in actual fact is quite realistic. Ray suggested that I use a minimal amount of feathering in Cookie Cutter (which I did), but in my case the sky was so washed out over the frame area that I found the result quite tolerant of some variation in feathering.
As Ray mentioned earlier, what I was really looking for was the equivalent of a cloning tool. Cookie Cutter does the job nicely, but I can't help thinking a cloning facility would be simpler to use - and surely not beyond Magix's ability to implement?
Richard
Hi
In my image, I cheated to get a more blue sky. I created a mask in Xara and applied it in VPX with a bit of blurring. I modified the sky of the part that shows in the mask to be more blue. Of course, this becomes difficult if the camera is panning. I would have to use the animation part of Xara, available from MEP/VPX, to do the rotoscoping by modifying the mask over time.
This would be simpler to do using the Colour Correction Effect which is basically a rotoscoping tool that creates a travelling matte to isolate selected areas in videos.
The HDR effect would be useful to lift those overly dark areas and who knows, there might be a little detail in the train that could be bought out. Love the HDR tool and use it on many of my clips in conjunction with the Contrast / Brightness effects (and Curves in VPX). The Prodad Picture Enhanzr RT has also become addictive.
Peter