Reorder Audio/video tracks in Moview Studio 2022 Suite?

Scott-Evans wrote on 3/13/2022, 3:53 PM

Please advise on how I can reorder audio/video tracks in Movie Studio 2022 Suite. I am a long time user of other Vegas Movie Studio Platinum versions, and so far, I have been unable to find any way in this latest version of Movie Studio to reorder audio and video tracks to set a hierarchy of display (such as wanting a specific video track to overlay on top of another one). This is with version 21.0.2.130. If I can't reorder tracks, this is a complete non-starter for me.

Comments

CubeAce wrote on 3/13/2022, 4:27 PM

@Scott-Evans

Hi Scott and welcome to the user to user forums.

Basically the track order is upside down to most editors.

Movie Studio is no longer a Vegas product but a re badged version of Movie Edit Pro.

The track at the top (Track 1) is your base track.

Anything placed on a track below that covers the top track.

Video and audio can be placed on adjacent tracks with the audio showing beneath or show combined in one track.

Any tack can be used for video, audio, titling, etc. There are no specialist tracks.

If you downloaded the demo project, load it to give you clues as to how it all goes together. If you find the folder double click on the file with the extension MVP to open the project.

There are plenty of tutorial videos in the section above labeled Tutorials. Tutorial videos from John Brown cover most of the basics and above.

Ray.

 

Last changed by CubeAce on 3/13/2022, 4:30 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

johnebaker wrote on 3/13/2022, 4:45 PM

@Scott-Evans

Hi

The track order is the reverse of Vegas products ie track 1 is the background 'layer' as you add/move items to higher track numbers they will appear on top of a lower track number.

All tracks are universal, ie they can hold any image, video, title objects - no track is dedicated to video, audio, titles etc.

There is no feature for dragging a track up/down in order however there is a different method available to move a whole track up/down:

  1. In the track header, left end of the track, of the one to be moved, click the small down arrow and Select Cut
     
  2. In the header of the track where you want to insert the cut track, select the drop down arrow in this track header and select Paste. the selected track and all those with a higher track number will be moved down.

Repeat the process as many times as required.

John EB
Forum Moderator

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

AAProds wrote on 3/13/2022, 7:31 PM

@Scott-Evans

You're probably asking "why why why?" 🙂

The logic is that is makes it easy to add things "on top of" others by putting them on higher-numbered tracks, which are "lower" tracks when you're looking at the program on the screen. So, you're "looking up" through all the objects/tracks.

Even though it sounds a crazy idea, this works well because you don't have to keep "inserting" new tracks for objects (video, audio, titles) as you would have to do with a top-down concept.

You can drag objects out of the way downwards temporarily; you have complete freedom in the vertical.

The whole system works well but I can imagine it'd be a bit of a head-spin to convert to.

There has been mention of cheap deals on the real Vegas elsewhere in the forum if you don't want to convert the Magix way of things.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

Former user wrote on 3/13/2022, 7:37 PM

@AAProds I understand the logic in that order but i've used MEP for 18yrs now & it still messes with my 'logic', Things underneath are the things that are on top 🤯🙃🥴🤣🤣

AAProds wrote on 3/13/2022, 8:25 PM

I don't have a logic problem Gid, I just turn my monitor upside down when using MEP! 😂

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

Former user wrote on 3/13/2022, 8:50 PM

@AAProds 🙃😂👍

browj2 wrote on 3/13/2022, 11:03 PM

@Scott-Evans

Hi,

Track protocol: As I've stated many times, it's something we learned in elementary school. The tracks are numbered down the left side, just like you would do on a sheet of paper if the teacher asked you to write 1 to 10 down the left side of a piece of paper. 1 is the lowest number but you would put it first at the top, 2 is higher number than 1 but you would put it second, 3 is higher than 2 and so on. If you can remember just that, then you're fine. It doesn't matter where it is on the page or screen, 1 is always the lowest number, the lowest track and thus the backest background. Just use the track numbers to guide you.

Secondly, MEP/MS has tracks, just tracks and you can put whatever you want on them (that doesn't mean that you should). There are no audio tracks, no image tracks, no video tracks, no composite tracks, no adjustment tracks, no weirdo tracks, just tracks, lots of them. Use them for what you want, call them whatever you want.

Thirdly, I have never had to move a track. I move objects. Moving all objects on a track is as simple as moving a track, if such an unnecessary feature were available. Simply change to Mouse mode for a single track (shortcut 8). Grab and drag the first object on the track - all objects on the track are highlighted, and move it to another track, preferably empty. All of the other objects on the track move with it. Done. Watch the video. Easy?

Don't forget to switch back to single object mouse mode (shortcut 6).

You may want to watch my tutorials on Basic Editing parts 1 and 2 to get a good feel for how the main editing tools work:

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

Scott-Evans wrote on 3/13/2022, 11:31 PM

Thanks to everyone for the tips/tricks. Your info does help. It just seems wasteful to have to drag track content to a different empty track to put things in a different hierarchy, rather than just re-ordering the tracks directly. That then leaves an unnecessarily empty track in its wake. I'm fine with the backwards order than I'm used to

I'm sure I'll eventually get used to the flow of this Magix tool, but didn't realize it was a completely different product than the legacy Movie Studio products from Vegas when I purchased it. Didn't realize there would be nearly the learning curve, so will have to budget extra time to learn things differently than I've been doing for the last 8 or so years of Movie Studio. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I guess. Expect a bunch more questions in the future. :-)

For now, I think the to hardest things to relearn will be to re-learn that scrolling my mouse wheel no longer zooms in and out on the timeline, but rather only goes forwards and backwards. Have to ctrl-scroll to zoom in and out. Also, will have to take a bunch of repetition to remember that I have to click on the time section of the timeline to relocate my cursor. In legacy MS, I could click anywhere on any spot on a track on the timeline.

browj2 wrote on 3/13/2022, 11:51 PM

@Scott-Evans

Hi,

You'll catch on quickly.

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project. And much, much more.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

AAProds wrote on 3/14/2022, 12:59 AM

@Scott-Evans

I'm sure I'll eventually get used to the flow of this Magix tool, but didn't realize it was a completely different product than the legacy Movie Studio products from Vegas when I purchased it. Didn't realize there would be nearly the learning curve, so will have to budget extra time to learn things differently than I've been doing for the last 8 or so years of Movie Studio. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I guess. Expect a bunch more questions in the future. :-)

Don't worry Scott, you weren't the only one who got suckered in to a completely different program. Magix hid the change pretty well. If you had known something big was up and knew what to look for, you could have cottoned-on. But when it just says an upgrade is available, one is not inclined to do that.

That said, we really like MEP/MMS and we're here to help!

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

CubeAce wrote on 3/14/2022, 2:12 AM

@Scott-Evans

It just seems wasteful to have to drag track content to a different empty track to put things in a different hierarchy, rather than just re-ordering the tracks directly. That then leaves an unnecessarily empty track in its wake. I'm fine with the backwards order than I'm used to.

You can delete any empty track you wish or add tracks between tracks as needed.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

browj2 wrote on 3/14/2022, 9:20 AM

@Scott-Evans

Hi,

I should add that you have several permutations of moving objects.

For the one that I showed, if you don't want to move the first object (or some of the first objects), simply select the first one that you want to move to another track.

If you want to move everything on a track and whatever is on other tracks below and to the right, switch to Mouse mode for al tracks (7) and drag the first object and everything to the right and below will follow. Selecting the second object or another one further along the track will select it, everything to the right and on tracks below that start at the same point as the selected object and to the right, will move.

If you want just some objects on a track, then use normal mouse mode (6), select the objects with Ctrl+left click, and drag.

To facilitate seeing all tracks easier, switch to full screen mode for the Project Window (timeline).

Further to track hierarchy, you always know where your background is - track 1. If you need to rearrange things on track 1 (early in the process) you can switch to StoryBoard mode and move the objects around quickly and easily. However, this is only for whatever is on track 1.

You may have noticed that I have audio and video on separate tracks that are grouped together (automatically) and when one is moved, the other moves with it. This is my preferred setup. See my tutorials on Everything Audio.

See this message for links to other tutorials.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

Scott-Evans wrote on 3/14/2022, 10:53 PM

@browj2, thanks for the links to your tutorials! They're very easy to follow. I've watched a few of them now, and although different than what I'm accustomed to from previous tools, MMS does look to do everything I'm wanting/needing to do; just need to figure out how to get there by learning new, and forgetting old. But at my age, forgetting is the easy part of that. :-)

Thanks to others for their encouragement as well. It is appreciated.

Scott

ericlnz wrote on 3/14/2022, 10:59 PM

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project.

@browj2 As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

AAProds wrote on 3/14/2022, 11:36 PM

@ericlnz

As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

As JohnCB says:

"multiple timelines (Movies) in a project" with the emphasis on movies.

I find this quite handy when dealing with a large project/video file where you want to uses different parts for different movies/videos.

And, of course, it facilitates multi-movie DVD authoring.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

Nalmcruto wrote on 3/15/2022, 12:57 AM

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project. And much, much more.

@browj2 @ericlnz @AAProds

Vegas can run multiple instances simultaneously to simultaneously work on a parent/child nested project. That does pretty much everything multi-Timeline does. And this multi-Instance mode is more advanced because it can also have multi-preview, multi-FX-window, multi-media-bin, etc. There is also copy-paste interaction between different instances.

However, it also has the disadvantage of occupying more system resources. If you have many instances open, the system becomes rather sluggish.

johnebaker wrote on 3/15/2022, 4:02 AM

@ericlnz

Hi Eric

. . . .  multiple timelines . . . . . What do you use them for? . . . .

In my case it was for creating multi movie discs using the MEP/MMS/VPX internal disc creation feature, before getting DVD Architect. There is a tutorial here.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

ericlnz wrote on 3/15/2022, 4:54 AM

Thanks @johnebaker I can see it's probably a left over from the days when most consumers exported their movies to disk. Nowadays few do, at least among my video friends.

CubeAce wrote on 3/15/2022, 7:58 AM

@ericlnz

Hi.

There is still demand for it, at least in the UK where it it often used for Wedding photographers and videographers who will produce wedding Blu-rays / DVDs. They are still a favorite playback medium for the more mature audience rather than clogging up a hard drive and trying to find it again or having a hard drive failure. It is also a more secure transfer method for those that don't want their material uploaded onto the net.

Personally I prefer to hand over USB sticks but each to their own and clients should always have a choice.

I have never done a wedding professionally but do get asked by friends and family since my results were better than the 'photographer' at my nieces wedding. Saves on buying a gift. 😂😇😉 (I do also supply a full Wedding photo album).

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 3/15/2022, 8:00 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

browj2 wrote on 3/15/2022, 10:20 AM

@ericlnz

Hi Eric,

As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

Good question!

I can see it's probably a left over from the days when most consumers exported their movies to disk. Nowadays few do, at least among my video friends.

I see that others have pitched in, but using multiple movies goes further and it is definitely not a leftover. As I said, many Vegas users would love this feature and have asked for it over the last few years that I have been following the Vegas Pro part of the forum. I haven't followed the Vegas Movie Studio much.

I rarely have a project that does not have more than one movie.

There are some differences in capability and use between MEP/MS and VPX that I'll address.

To start:

1. As mentioned by @johnebaker, the main purpose was for creating DVD/BR's with multiple movies, each having chapters (or not).

2. Splitting up a project into parts. I have had projects that got too long. I simply split the project by moving part to a second movie (or third, fourt), and then copying/pasting anything else that needed to be shared - intro, outro, titles, music, etc. I then continue completing each, often going back and forth between movies.

3. As per point 1, creating a large project that has different variations of the topic, but without necessarily ending up with a DVD/BR. Example: a camping trip during which we spent a couple of days with friends (and sometimes different friends) for different activities. I'll make one movie for the overall trip, and separate movies for the days with friends (one a walking tour, the other a wine tour). I'm doing the project, the material is all there, some will be shared, so I populate the movies at the same time and complete each within the same project, and not necessarily at the same time. Just export the movie that is finished, send, and keep on working or come back much later to complete other parts. At least everything is in one project.

Another example - a wedding - a short version, the life of the couple, the ceremony, the reception with a separate Movie for each, rather than a separate Project for each. I work on everything within one project with shared assets. Export (render) each movie separately or in a batch and/or create a DVD or BR.

4. As mentioned by @Nalmcruto, Vegas can run multiple instances but the load to the system can be great. MEP/MS/VPX cannot open multiple instances. Instead, you can open a second project, third, fourth... into a first project. One or more movies will be created for each project. These are now in the current project and the original imported project file does not get touched. Assets can then be copied/pasted to the main movie. When not needed, a movie can be removed from the project. So, for a multi-session project (aren't they all), your assets are already in your project; no need to open another instance each time.

5. Further to point 2, for those who are using old VHS, DV, 8mm/Super8 digitized files, they are usually in one or more large files with multiple topics. Import the file(s), do scene detection and split into separate objects. If there are multiple topics and since you're already reviewing the material, open a movie for each and move the objects to their associated movie. Export each and open them in their respective projects. You now have a head start on multiple projects in one go.

6. Further to point 5, a Movie can be exported to an MVD files, which is like a one-movie project. That Movie can be opened in another project or a new project. The original MVD file does not get touched unless you overwrite it deliberately.

7. Movies (MVD) files can be imported into a Project. The original file is not touched. So you could have started a project in one multi-movie file, decided to do it in its own project, export/import the Movie.

8. I have some templates with named and coloured tracks, intros, outros, etc. I often forget to start a project with a template, so I can open it in my project, move my content, delete the first movie, and continue on. If I want my template or a different template for a second movie, just open it and rename its Movie, and so on.

9. Trying out effects or something else: If I'm in a project and want to try something out that I might want to use (or not) but don't want to upset my main timeline, just open another Movie(s) and do it there. No need to close the project and open another one to do this. If you want to keep it for other use, export the Movie.

An example of something else: I sometimes have a series of photos in a project that I want add music to, cut to the beat, etc. An easy way is to put the photos in a separate Movie and use the SlideShow Wizard. Once happy, move the material to the main movie. This avoids affecting other parts of the main movie whilst creating that part.

Another one: trying out various collages. Best to try them in a separate movie.

And another one: using the Soundtrack Maker Wizard for part of the timeline. Best to try it out and make adjustments in a separate movie.

Note on Vegas: it doesn't come with content like audio files (songs and loops); its slideshow maker has no audio with it; there is no Soundtrack Maker.

10. Multi-language projects: I do some of my projects in franglais - so I need two versions, English and French. For just narration, one Movie is needed (mute one language, export, unmute and mute the other language, export, but if I also have text for each language, then I'll open a second Movie, copy in the first, change the text and add the narration for that language. I now have one project instead of two for the same topic with a Movie per language.

A note here, VPX has multi-language audio tracks that can be used to advantage for DVD/BR's. So, each movie can have more than one language but each movie is only present once on the DVD/BR; there are separate audio tracks. The language is selected like we have on commercial DVD/BR's. Of course, the text would have to be bilingual as there is only one version of each Movie.

11. Nesting - here is the one that Vegas users would like. In Vegas Pro, you can nest projects. However, the project is a separate project file and if you need to change something, you have to open that project and change it. In VPX, you use Movies for nesting, thus your material is all in one project. The Movie is treated as an object and dragged from the Project Temp Folder onto the timeline of a different Movie. If you need to change something, just switch to the associated Movie, make the change, go back to your main Movie, and the change has been done. Another advantage is that you can import the project(s) that you want to nest, modify it for use in the current project, and the original is not touched. The variant is now kept with its main project. The variant Movie can also be exported for use elsewhere.

Some variations on Point 5.

In MEP/MS, you can save trimmed parts as Takes to be used in other projects. I find this labourious and unnecessary as you may as well start your project as a separate Movie since you're already looking at it.

In VPX, you cannot save Takes. You use the Project Temp Folder, which is like a bin. Create separate virtual folders and put the material in its respective folder. Nothing needs to be on the timeline at the end. You can change the name of the object in the PTF, add a description, scene and take code. Export the PTF and import it into multiple projects/movies and just use the material from the pertinent folder, already cut and trimmed, Remove unnecessary folders from that project.

I probably forgot a few uses, but I think you get the idea of the usefulness of multiple movies and more.

John CB

 

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

ericlnz wrote on 3/15/2022, 9:08 PM

There is still demand for it, at least in the UK where it it often used for Wedding photographers and videographers who will produce wedding Blu-rays / DVDs.

@CubeAce I gather from posts on various forums that the sale of discs was how many wedding photographers made it pay!

ericlnz wrote on 3/15/2022, 9:19 PM

@browj2 Thanks for your detailed reply. Being a consumer video maker who only makes a few short videos a year I don't run into the situations you describe. I rarely go over ten minutes. Most are around 6-8 minutes. But thanks again for the effort you put into your reply.

AAProds wrote on 3/15/2022, 9:25 PM

Great job there @browj2!

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

CubeAce wrote on 3/16/2022, 1:24 AM

@ericlnz

Hi.

Wedding photographers and wedding videographers are normally two sets of work groups or individuals and charges are up front. Normally at the cheap end around around £550 for a photographer and double that for video, just to turn up. Sale of videos, any editing or processing delivery of goods etc can be on top of that. such as wedding albums amount of images supplied etc. It can get very expensive very quickly. I think my brother in law paid £2,000 for a popular local photographer. No video. A lot also depends on how long you want them for. How many prints, length of video etc.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."