ProDAD Stabilization Data lost, after re-arranging timeline elements!

ellie-l wrote on 1/10/2017, 9:56 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm using Movie Edit Pro 2016 Premium.

Cut a Video of 10 mins length, involving some 15 Video elements. For 6 Video elements, I had to engage ProDAD Mercalli for stabilizing them, with very good results, btw :-)

Then, I felt the need to insert another (new) Video element at the Middle of the timeline, and a second one at the very start of the timeline. For doing this quickly, I grouped and ungrouped respective Video elements several times altogether, moved them, and finally put them in place, again.

To my great surprise, I found some of those 6 Video elements, which have perviously been stabilized by ProDAD Mercalli, labeled as "Not yet stabilized". In other words, I had to process ProDAD Mercalli for a second time on them.

My Question: Is it indeed normal, ProDAD Mercalli stabilizing data go fishing by moving / re-arranging Video elements on the timeline?

Thank you for Advice,

Ellie L.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 1/10/2017, 11:45 AM

. . . . . Is it indeed normal, ProDAD Mercalli stabilizing data go fishing by moving / re-arranging Video elements on the timeline . . . .

This is normal depending on the editing performed on the clip after analysis, eg every time you make an edit eg cut, trim, change the length of a clip you have to re-run the Prodad stabiliser plugin.

Adding effects such as fade in/out or transitions do not affect the analysis.

HTH

John EB

ellie-l wrote on 1/10/2017, 1:54 PM

Hi John EB,

I suspected myself doing wrong. Now, I'm glad to hear, it isn't me.

That means, I will have to pass the ProDAD plugin over a blurry Video element preferably at the very beginning, for deciding whether the element will be improved sufficiently, as feasible, or not. The second ProDAD pass has to be performed eventually, when all editing work has reached its final state.

Thank you for this quick and conclusive reply. Much appreciated!

Ellie L.

johnebaker wrote on 1/11/2017, 3:27 AM

. . . . I will have to pass the ProDAD plugin over a blurry Video element preferably at the very beginning . . . .

Do you mean 'blurry video' if so that is not the function of ProDAD Mercalli it is for reducing shaky movement of the camera while videoing as shown below.

As you can see the movement induced by using the camera at its extreme telephoto range with no tripod, these Pelicans were about 100m away, has been smoothed out.

Mercalli stabilisation is best done after all editing has been done, ie: one of the very last things you do, as with sharpening, to a video clip - this way you avoid the problem you are seeing.

HTH

John EB

ellie-l wrote on 1/11/2017, 3:13 PM

Hi John EB,

I'm sorry, "blurry" was wrong term, I meant shaky, instead.

If you're wondering why I favor using ProDAD at the very beginning, it's for very practical reasons. It's quite simple.

The first ProDAD pass is done right after inserting a shaky Video element into timeline, for initial testing purposes. In order to see, whether ProDAD is able to stabilize at feasible levels. Only if that's the case, I feel free to further use this element at all.

If I would use ProDAD only at late state, when all editing works have been done, then I would risk to see an eventual Uselessness of an element (being too shaky) only at such a late phase of producing. But if dropping its employment in the project proofs inevitable -- at such a late phase, then I will face further hassle. Which means re-arranging, re-editing multiple parts of a certain (narrative) sequence. And if I'm forced to re-edit multiple elements at late project state, it could end up in losing ProDAD data for some other (re-edited) elements anyway.

Otherwise, if I work only with Video elements verified for their suitability at first, I will never find myself messing with later sequential Narration changes, re-editing, cutting etc., including eventual needs of additional ProDAD applications at adjacent elements.

My way, I'm investing time in advance, but will never come across to the need of cumbersome re-arrangements, whatsoever. Which also require time, and in certain types of storyline, proofs to be an awkward thing to do.

Ellie L.

Scenestealer wrote on 1/12/2017, 3:50 AM

Hi Ellie

I can not say that I have noticed a 2nd analysis being required after grouping and moving clips or inserting other clips adjacent to stabilized ones. The only time I see this is after changing the length of a stabilized clip, and often this is required after assessing if the clip can be saved without having to zoom it too much to get the movement down to an acceptable level ie. there may be a larger jump near the start or finish that can be pared away. This is how I needed to work in Mercalli V2 that is now in MEP as a standard feature, but with the use of the updated V4 plug in there is a cool new feature that dynamically zooms (by an adjustable degree) the areas as the movement increases and decreases.

The second ProDAD pass has to be performed eventually, when all editing work has reached its final state.

Fortunately all the work of the first pass is not undone with any tweaks you have done to the adjustable parameters after the first analysis remaining in the second.

emmrecs wrote on 1/12/2017, 4:29 AM

@Ss and Ellie L.

I agree with Ellie on this, and see exactly the same thing. If you do apply Mercalli v4 to an "unedited" clip and then need to subsequently edit said clip in any way, Mercalli will demand to reanalyse the clip. I happen to think this is not too much of an additional hassle.

One thing I have learned about this, perhaps the "hard" way, is that if you fail/forget to re-run the analysis, as I did on a very short edited clip whose longer version had been stabilised, the Mercalli warning message stays on the clip and will be exported with it!!

@Peter, I'm very much aware that I never posted back to our original discussion of some months ago re render times and using integrated v. dedicated graphics card. I really must find that thread again: having just discovered how to ensure that both my graphics card (AMD Radeon R7 360) and my i7 CPU were available to VPX, I've just exported a test project, 23 minutes long, to AVCHD on DVD, multiple clips (full HD, 25fps), stills, numerous transitions, music tracks etc., in just over 37 minutes. To me, that's pretty impressive, even with the Mercalli message mentioned above being present on the export! (I really must get into the habit of fully reviewing the final project before export. Thankfully, the disc used is RW!)