Comments

AAProds wrote on 1/3/2023, 10:14 PM

You'll have to give us some details on your export parameters (frame size, bitrate), but quality is almost solely proportional to bitrate.

You'll have success if you use the export presets, although in my experience you can reduce the preset bitrates by half and still achieve a good outcome, quality-wise. You'll only get pixellation at very low bitrates.

 

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 1/4/2023, 7:07 AM

@hawaiiboy65

Hi

@AAProds commented

. . . . You'll have success if you use the export presets,  . . . .

I agree totally with this, and would add - do not change any of the settings of the preset they are already optimised for the video resolution and encoding format.

You will see some recommendations in the forum to increase the bitrate and/or set the GOP structure to I frames only, however, depending on the video content, this usually only gives you a marginal increase in perceived quality and/or a massive increase in the file size.

Are you creating video for uploading to YouTube ?

John EB
Forum Moderator.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

hawaiiboy65 wrote on 1/4/2023, 11:45 AM

thanks for the help!

AVG BIT RATE is 6000 and MAX BIT RATE is 8000. is that sufficient?

Also, I have been sharpening my videos before exporting. does that hurt the export quality?

Videos are for youtube and facebook ads

 

hawaiiboy65 wrote on 1/4/2023, 11:45 AM

MP4 format

johnebaker wrote on 1/4/2023, 4:25 PM

@hawaiiboy65

Hi

. . . . AVG BIT RATE is 6000 and MAX BIT RATE is 8000. is that sufficient? . . .

Only if you are exporting at a resolution of 1280 x 720 px at 30fps - this is the default setting for this resolution and framerate

For higher resolutions the default Avg and Max bitrates respectively are:

  • FullHD 1920 x 1080px at 30fps - 24000 and 30000
     
  • 4K UHD 3840 x 2160px at 30 fps - 64000 and 96000

HTH

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

hawaiiboy65 wrote on 1/4/2023, 7:27 PM

ok thanks john! that helps a lot. i wasn't even close!

i've been exporting at 1920x1080.

do i need that size for the video to look good on youtube? or is 1280 x 720 typically sufficient to maintain a crisp looking video?

AAProds wrote on 1/4/2023, 8:12 PM

@hawaiiboy65

If you give Youtube at least 1440P ie 2560x1440 (16:9) or 1920x1440 (4:3), then you'll invoke the YT VP9 video codec, which is better than H264.

And make sure you choose "Best" in the Advanced export settings. Why Magix thought it should default it's exports to something other than the best you can do is a mystery to me.

Last changed by AAProds on 1/4/2023, 8:13 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

CubeAce wrote on 1/5/2023, 2:08 AM

@AAProds @johnebaker

Hi Al.

Why Magix thought it should default it's exports to something other than the best you can do is a mystery to me.

We are back to the 'perceived quality 'argument again and the effects of varying compression levels applied during a re-render of a video file verses end file size and the disk storage space needed.

Some people never see a difference while for others it becomes an increasing annoyance while a third section of the population see it but are not bothered by it.

My final conclusion on the subject is if a person reports they see a difference, believe them even if you can't because it is just as reliant on the graphics components in a system and how that is set up, as the quality of the eyesight of the viewer as well as viewing distance vs screen size.

@hawaiiboy65

Regarding sharpening.

That is something I rarely ever do except exceptional circumstances. Sharpening to my eye, for my own personal material has side effects I notice from the original such as an increase in colour noise in the shadow areas, even at lightly applied levels of use. I know others use it and would not go above a 20% level of added sharpening and is yet another division of opinion between users.

Most people get obsessed with this subject as they progress but forget the importance of starting with a well calibrated monitor and the setting up of their graphics components in the various graphics card control panels which can add their own sharpening and colour calibration before you even start editing. While the editing package should take charge of some of those settings for the actual editing process, the playback in whatever player you designate to play the file back in is controlled from the graphics card interfaces.

So the question then becomes 'How far don the rabbit hole do you want to go?' along with 'After all that effort, will the person at the other end see what I see?' followed by 'Is it all worth the effort?' 😅😉

Ray.

 

Last changed by CubeAce on 1/5/2023, 2:09 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

johnebaker wrote on 1/5/2023, 3:13 AM

@hawaiiboy65, @CubeAce

Hi

+1 for @AAProds comment re exporting for YT.

. . . . Regarding sharpening. That is something I rarely ever do except exceptional circumstances . . . .

This is something I always do - I work with 4K UHD video and it is most beneficial when downscaling eg to FullHD and when effects tend to affect the image sharpness (Blur excepted 😂).

Sharpening should be the very last effect applied to the movie, IMHO never on the individual clips, using the Movie Effects option - I set a value of 30 which adds a subtle amount, which is perceivable as a crisper image without over doing the sharpening, in the export.

. . . . well calibrated monitor and the setting up of their graphics components in the various graphics card control panels which can add their own sharpening and colour calibration before you even start editing . . . .

This I totally agree with, particularly if you are producing videos professionally, or are working with dual monitors, colour calibration, ideally, should be done , or the monitors at least adjusted so colours are as close to identical as possible.

If you do not need or want to go to the expense of a colour calibration device - I use an X-Rite monitor colour calibrator - then Windows has some rudimentary colour calibration options for the displays.

To answer Rays 'rhetorical' questions:

. . . . So the question then becomes 'How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?' . . . .

As far as the 'rabbit hole' is concerned this is a user choice.

. . . . will the person at the other end see what I see?' . . . .

Almost definitely not, their monitor/TV/viewing device calibrations may be way off and the incident lighting totally different so they will see the video differently.

. . . . followed by 'Is it all worth the effort? . . . .

IMHO - Yes - your satisfaction that you have produced the best quality video you can for the viewer, without going down another rabbit hole, is important.

HTH

John EB

Last changed by johnebaker on 1/5/2023, 3:14 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

CubeAce wrote on 1/5/2023, 4:38 AM

@AAProds @AAProds

In case anyone following these added bits of information @johnebaker is referring to when he says

Sharpening should be the very last effect applied to the movie, IMHO never on the individual clips, using the Movie Effects option - I set a value of 30 which adds a subtle amount, which is perceivable as a crisper image without over doing the sharpening, in the export.

John is referring to the following feature I'm not even sure most users are familiar with.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 1/5/2023, 9:06 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

johnebaker wrote on 1/5/2023, 7:43 AM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Thanks for the images for clarification.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

hawaiiboy65 wrote on 1/5/2023, 12:11 PM

ok so if i understand correctly... the "movie effects" option applies sharpening to the entire movie upon export?

i have been using it on individual clips. i will try this way and see if it helps. thanks everyone! appreciate the support!

johnebaker wrote on 1/5/2023, 1:23 PM

@hawaiiboy65

Hi

. . . . the "movie effects" option applies sharpening to the entire movie upon export? . . . .

Thats is correct.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

AAProds wrote on 1/5/2023, 10:10 PM

@CubeAce

We are back to the 'perceived quality 'argument again

Ray, I'm not arguing about the perceived quality. I can't see why the default encoding setting for any encoding would not be "Best". If somebody wants to reduce the quality then fine, they could set it via dropdown, but it seems silly to me to want anything less than "best" for a given bitrate.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

CubeAce wrote on 1/6/2023, 3:54 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Notice at the lowest part of the scale of encoding it says Fastest rather than poorest quality?

In that case does that not go with their advertising claims of being able to be used on the lowest ability of computers within the specified component list? Assuming the 'Best' option would require more processing power or at the least take a lot longer to render than the selected default setting? I'm just playing devil's advocate at this point so don't take me too seriously. After all, what's in a name?

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."