I'm trying to align two different video takes....I am trying to line up the audio from clip two to the audio of clip one. I have the slate audio. The problem is the automatic snap to frame grid. I do not know how to remove snap to grid on Video Pro x.
Hi,
Two ways.
Joh CB
Hi,
Two ways.
- Turn off the snap to object grid - the magnet on the toolbar, or
- Right-click on the audio part, Align other audio objects with this track - follow the instructions
Joh CB
Thnx, But I tried pushing the Magnet and it does nothing. I will try your second suggestion.
Nope, both suggestions do not work.
So the problem is....I closed the program....restarted.....closed.....restarted......finally it move independent of the frame grid....no it snaps to the second in time....I can only move the audio either forward of backwards by the second....which is again useless to me.
And the auto align....pure junk.
This program, for the money....sucks.
If anyone reads this before they buy the program....loook for a different program to buy....this one is pure junk.
Hi
. . . . I tried pushing the Magnet and it does nothing . . . .
It only works on video or image objects to ensures that video and image objects snap exactly to the borders of a frame, the step size depends on the frame rate specified in the movie settings, audio files are not affected by this.
Which version of Video Pro X are you using as found under Help, About. . .?
Both Snap to object grid off and Align with other audio . . . work for me on VPX version 17.0.3.68 exactly as @browj2 has suggested.
. . . . I can only move the audio either forward of backwards by the second . . .
Audio clips can be moved to within minute fractions of a single frame as seen below - note the timeline cursor is located at the end of frame 1 (1/25 sec) in this example.
John EB
Sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and should have given a more detailed reply.
You asked how to turn off snapping - I replied to that.
Further to what John EB indicated, you have to ungroup the audio from the video to be able to move the audio separately, otherwise the audio moves with the video and it can only be moved 1 frame minimum. All video programs restrict movement of video to a single frame - you cannot have a portion of a frame.
As for the automatic alignment, show and tell us what you did. In most cases it works if the audio of each file is similar.
Don't just say that it doesn't work and that the program is no good because you don't know how to do something.
Joh CB
I have used VPX for many years professionally and constantly use the audio synch facility. I never have a problem with it when used properly, so would suggest that the problem lies with the user. Asking for help tends to get a better response from fellow users rather than telling them that the programme is junk when they know it isn't, otherwise you just end up sounding foolish!
Roger
@johnebaker
hello, yeah. thnx for your reply and time.....What I am trying to do is sync multiply videos of a live performance. Each camera starts at a different time. The audio needs to be attached to the video for the performance to match.
I have increased the frame rate in the hope of being able to move the video in smaller increments. I will look for a work around.
Ronny
@browj2
Yes, no worries, as you can see I was very frustrated yesterday.....You can see my comment to johnebaker as to what my problem is.
Thnx for your time and replies.
I have increased the frame rate in the hope of being able to move the video in smaller increments. I will look for a work around.
Ronny
Hi,
I don't think that that will help as you will have to put the frame rate back.
Have you put video and audio on separate tracks but still linked?
What happens when you right-click on the audio of the video, preferably the camera that starts first, and select Align other audio objects with this track and then select the other tracks?
Can you give us screen shots of what you are doing?
You can zoom in on the timeline to the frame level and move the VA clip on frame at a time.
John CB
@browj2
When I use the audio align it completely goes off. Does not match what so ever As I am not separating the audio from the video.....The problem is this.
I recorded video with audio to a camera and at the same time recorded through mics to Samplitude. Then I used the audio in Samplitude as a guide as I moved the camera to different angles to capture different takes. Thinking that I could edit them together as needed.
I figured I would use the slate sound to align all the different video takes.
The problem is the camera takes start at different times...and when I try to move it, it snaps to frame...I've tried the Magnet looking button to turn of snap...but it does not seem to work....as the video clip will just snap to the frame.
I cannot separate the audio and video as then the visual and the audio will not be in sync.
To be honest, Im mostly in the audio world....I turn snap to grid off and I can move the audio anywhere.....This video stuff in new to me....
I have to figure something out...a way to start the cameras as close to the same time as possible. I have a few ideas that I will try next time...for now...Im going to live with what I got.
I've tried the Magnet looking button to turn of snap...but it does not seem to work....as the video clip will just snap to the frame.
As @browj2 explained to you earlier, you cannot place your video anywhere other than precisely on a frame boundary. Audio can be placed exactly where you want because it isn't "stored" in frames (unless you're using .mp3 audio, which is); video cannot because it is "stored" in frames.
Depending on how "important" the final output of this project is you might want to consider the (not cheap) PluralEyes synchronisation software from Red Giant. Essentially it takes the footage from each of your cameras AND your Samplitude audio, visually "lines them up" and then, if needed, when you choose to Export the project from PluralEyes, will create a "new" audio track perfectly in sync with your camera audio. One caveat: the current version of PluralEyes is 4 but it has a "problem", acknowledged by Ref Giant Support in that it seems to fail to accurately read the source (audio and video) files. I've just experienced this and, following email correspondence with Reg Giant Support, have had to reinstall an earlier version of PluralEyes, 3.5, which resolves the problem. So, if you want to have a look at this possible solution I suggest you try out version 3.5 if you can.
HTH
Jeff
Hi
. . . . I recorded video with audio to a camera and at the same time recorded through mics to Samplitude. Then I used the audio in Samplitude as a guide as I moved the camera to different angles to capture different takes. . . . .
It is not clear exactly what the scenario was - it sounds like this was a live performance - is this correct?
How many cameras did you use?
If only 1 - was it recording continuously while moving around or start-stop for each take?
If multiple cameras - were they on tripods recording continuously while you moved around them altering different angle shots?
If none of the above can you clarify your statement more.
John EB
I used one camera. in four different static positions on a tripod. I did four separate takes . The last three takes I played along to the Samplitute audio recording of the first performance.
I used the first audio take as the guide. The camera captured the video of each new mock performance , but captured the audio that was being played through studio monitor speakers.
There was only one performer. Who is also the only one using the camera.
It was complicated...I just thought that I would be able to align everything in Post to the slate sound.
I'm lost here with what you are doing.
VPX and other programs that can sync sound, require the same audio recording or rather the same performance. This is usually for multi-cam where 2 or more cameras recorded the same performance at the same time, thus contain the same audio waveform, albeit with different recording devices. Add in audio recorded by an audio recorder of the same performance at the same time, and the program can usually align them with each other.
However, it looks like you are trying to automatically match a second video recorded at a separate time with the first one - this won't work. The audio will not be the same, that is, the program will not "hear" the same waveform and won't be able to align them automatically.
Even playing back the first performance whilst recording new video will likely not have a close enough waveform for automatic alignment. The camera mic will pick up background noise, however slight.
You need something like an audio or visual cue, say, a click track on one channel and the recording on another, clapboard, metronome light, to be able to match things up.
If you watch some recent videos of orchestra or people playing over the internet, not at the same time, they use a click track or metronome so that the video editor can line things up, usually manually.
To exaggerate on the other side, imagine separate recordings, not at the same time, all video of the same person, once playing drums, once playing the guitar, once playing the piano, once singing, and then asking VPX to align the video clips by using the audio. Can't be done. The 4 audio tracks are completely different.
So, what to do?
The best that I can offer is to try to get as close as possible by eye and ear, zoom way in to frame level and identify a frame with something distinctive and put a snap marker on the first video. Make sure to have the waveform turned on. Try to find the similar thing in the second video (or audio clip) and put a snap marker. Move the second clip to line up the snap markers. Then go on to the third clip, add a snap marker and align it to the other ones, and so on.
As has been pointed out, video clips can only be move 1 frame at a time. If you recorded at 25 fps (PAL - Europe, UK), when you try to align video clips, the most that you will be out will be a half a frame. You can always ungroup the audio from the video and move the audio a very slight amount, then regroup the audio with the video, but the video cannot be moved.
Another thing to consider is the speed of sound. If your mics are all equidistant and close to the source, great. If not, then the sound is not arriving at each mic at the same time. At 25fps, if a mic is located 44ft away, it will be off by 1 frame from the visual.
Screen shots and a detailed explanation, step by step of what you are doing would help us help you. Make sure to zoom in on the timeline and increase the height of the tracks.
To see an example of a complicated montage, see the video below from 1m28s onwards. I can't imagine singing that, let alone editing it.
John CB
@browj2 @chas-r @emmrecs@emmrecs@emmrecs
Hi Ronny.
To add to what John just said about sound being out due distances between the microphones from the sound source.
On top of that, some cameras sound recording will lag behind the visual by x amount of frames dependant on frame speed. I have two cameras that I use for video and one is four frames behind in video at 29.94fps and five frames behind at 59.94fps. In most instances this lag is not that noticeable particularly when recording anything that happens over a reasonable distance way but at closer quarters can present additional problems.
Ray.
Hi Ray
. . . . I have two cameras that I use for video and one is four frames behind in video at 29.94fps and five frames behind at 59.94fps. . . . .
Is this also when played in camera or Media Player, or just in MEP?
Do you use the Set audio-video offset option?
John EB
If I am not mistaken, Ronny seems to be doing something similar to what I sometimes do with multi takes of a musician or band.
The first run through with one camera is a take of the live performance, sometimes using a sound recorder as well as the camera audio. That first take audio is then played back to the musician/band, who then mime to the first take audio. This is repeated a number of times using one camera with different angles for each take.
In my own experience, I take the first take audio recording as the main audio master, then line the other takes up by eye using the audio waveform and visual clues. Once the initial visual synching in done, I then left click on the audio track of one of the video takes, and shift/right click on the master audio track. This brings up the list with the option to audio synch. I click on that and the video and audio tracks autosynch themselves. I do the same for each of the video takes, although I have had success synching all the video takes to the master audio track by grouping them all. I do find that the individual track synching is the most reliable.
I use the same method for synching my wedding multi camera shoots with a master audio track from a portable recorder.
Roger
Hi John.
No, it's a know problem with the camera when using an external microphone as it has a coded ADC adapter (The only official adapter that will work with that camera) that initialises after the recording begins. Not ideal but it's much better than the inboard sound.
Most of the time I don't bother as I don't often film that close to a subject but if filming closer, yes.
Ray.
@RogerGunkel
That is exactly what i did..4 different camera positions.4 separate takes. First take the keeper, Takes 2-4 a mock performance to the Master Audio file coming from Samplitude..Everything in rather close proximity in an apartment living room.
I used a Slate sound as the sound to align everything. (actually me clicking drumsticks together). A very sharp percussive sound producing a small wave form.
The problem is the video moves by the frame. So I cannot manually align exactly. And the auto align does not work for this.
The question I have ....
Are you separating the audio captured by the camera from the video clip, before you auto align it to the master audio? I'm assuming the separated camera audio and the video are grouped to gather.
Are you then going through each other take, one at a time, and aligning to the master audio track?
Like this.
1- Master Audio auto align to take 1
2- Master Audio auto align to take 2
3.etc, etc. repeated until all takes are done.
@browj2
RogerGunkel has described what I have done....Oh, and thnx for your time in answering my questions....extremely helpful.
If anyone is doing tutorial videos. How to do a One Man Show Multi Takes On One Camera, video alignment Tutorial...it would probably be very popular with musical artists.in general....
For anyone reading this thread for information about this subject....I will not be using the audio captured by the camera in the final product....the camera audio is used only for aligning purposes.
What I will use for audio is the audio captured and mixed in Samplitude , presently on Pro x5.