@browj2

Hi John.

I have just tried opening ME3 in both MEP 2022 and VPX 14 and getting 'Program cannot be started etc, error code 6.

Can you see if your copy will open please?

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I just tried the MusicEditor.exe in both MS2023 and VPX14 on my desktop, VPX14 on my laptop. No problem.

I have seen this error before. Try searching all programs for MusicEditor.exe. Then try them all.

John CB

@browj2

Thanks John.

Will look into it.

Ray.

@CubeAce, @browj2

Hi Ray, john

ME 3 works fine on my laptop, does not work - error code 6 - on my PC.

So far have not found reason why 😞

John EB

@johnebaker

Oh Fiddlesticks!

I've had enough scares for one evening. Earlier I couldn't for the life of me figure out why the focus points on my camera had stopped being able to be moved across the screen. Fixed now, but for a while.....

Only thing I see in common at present is the lack of a 10th gen Intel CPU or newer in the non working ME3. Maybe a Microsoft driver update?

Ray.

John - thank you. I had found and watched your video previously. The key point I took from the video this time, is that the edited clip is saved and reimported into the Magix Studio. I have again explored the Help available on Music Editor - I have found it a little like reading a telephone book. I am wanting to get the concepts clear. I have explored Audacity - and watched some very good tutorials, So, I am comfortable with the functionality I am looking for. However, I am missing the basics on selecting and highlighting portions to edit using Music Editor 3. Do you have any thought starters re a video/tutorial that would help? You mentioned in the tutorial you sent me, that it was a subject for another tutorial?

My objective is to add a voice over to an AV presentation.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

Can you be more specific please?

Do you have an existing audio file you wish to edit or are you after creating an voice over audio track?

Either can be done within the main program without the need of ME 3.

Ray.

Ray, I am creating a voice over audio track. I am doing this in MS. I can also do most of the editing in MS. However, if I wish to cut a word out, or perhaps copy and paste, I thought it would be easier to do this in ME3. I have purchased a Rode USB+ microphone so am endeavouring to lift my game over what I have achieved previously. Ray - many thanks for following up. BTW - with the time difference, I live in Auckland New Zealand.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

Audio can be edited in exactly the same way a video track can using the same tools. Cut, copied, duplicated, or re-arranged. Such edited blocks are referred to as Objects. Read pages 85 to 91 in the pdf manual about how th handle objects.

If you are not trying to get the audio to match lip movement on screen then the accuracy should be good enough.

Most effective editing is done using the timeline mode where individual tracks can be scanned visually better for content and actually see what is happening on each track.

To record audio within MMS 2023 click on the record button and select to record audio from the options.

Test your volume in the mixer panel and record. You could record several tracks where you make mistakes and then edit them into a coherent final mix or delete sections of the bad audio and then move all the good bits onto one track dragging the appropriate sections into place. Volumes of individual takes can be adjusted to match each other. You will find information on various parts of this in the pdf manual including page 77, 78, 79. 127 to 146

Unfortunately I'll be away from my PC for the next 50 hours or so. Busy couple of days coming up.

Ray.

Ray - thankyou - that gets me back on track - I guess I need to apply the KISS principle (Keep It Simple ....) Many thanks for talking the time share your knowledge. Tony

I am still keen to find a good training video. I used the timeline to edit audio as suggested. I have normalised the voice over. My voice came out very echo-e. To fix that I have used a standard setting - "Speech" and this seems to make the voice more acceptable. I have read the manual several times - I am starting this from cold, so probably am trying to do something that you do intuitively. Any suggested tutorials I could refer to?

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

Did you use MMS 2023 to record your voice?

I'm not sure what you mean by "My voice came out very echo-e". It should have come out as it was recorded with just the room acoustics if you sat more than a few inches away from the microphone.

There is the possibility that you had a feedback loop in the audio.

When recording audio it may be worth while making sure that the Windows Volume mixer has the output for MMS turned off while recording.

In the example below I have used Stereo mix to be able to record Windows Media player rather than the mic input to record audio into the program but it should be the same with using the microphone. You may not hear your voice if wearing headphones but as long as you can see visually the meter recording the volume then all will be well.

If it is something else try uploading a short sound file to Google drive along with a link here for us to hear.

Ray.

@Tony-Haack

It has just occurred to me you may need to listen to the video at the same time. I have never had to do that.

If you select the mic input you would have to listen to the video via closed backed headphones at a relatively low volume or the mic may pick up the sound from the headphones.

@browj2 does do that for his videos. I think he will be able to help more with that.

Ray.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

I have now tried this out for myself. There was no need to change any settings in the Microsoft Mixer.

I did not get any echo or repeated audio from my microphone and could set the video volume to whatever level I needed to hear the video audio. I do use closed backed headphones and did not get any audio leak from those to my microphone. Because of the way that recording is handled with OBS studio you will not hear my initial voice-over while I made the recoding itself as that would have created an audio feedback loop but let the video play to the end to see what I did.

I hope the video is explanatory enough. If not please don't hesitate to ask further or post your example of what is happening at your end.

Ray.

Ray - some great inputs.

1) DAT - I had been using CD quality.

2) I notice that you do not normalise your voice. I had been doing that - suspect that was what caused the problem. When I tired your way - just increase the volume - then normalise the music - good result.

3) I have been using closed headphones

4) I found the mixer good if a complete music track needed to be lowered. If I wish to raise and lower the volume along the track - I have been using key points to adjust the volume - is this correct?

5) OBS - have been using the standard setup in Magix Studio as you suggested.

Your video was very helpful. I have been targeting a microphone volume of around 70%, no special settings.

Your inputs have certainly tested well this morning.

Tony

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

As most video renders audio to 48kHz I just selected that as an input resolution without thinking about it.

I keep the audio slightly low on recording just to prevent unwanted clipping when recording in general as I was hand holding the mic and had no pop shield in place. There is nothing wrong with recording the level higher but be aware there is no limiter in place to prevent clipping doing it this way.

Yes you can adjust the volume of a clip several ways. Via the mixer slider. The main volume handle on the audio object and by drawing in a volume setting. You can also alter tone, compression, pitch, and length, remove clicks or, background noises. To get to some of the effects just quickly double left click the audio object you want to alter.

Most of this is covered in the pdf manual.

Ray.

Thank you, Ray - have had another screen open and tested as I was watching your video. You have put a huge amount to time into this - thank you. The book is very good - however, I find that I am starting from a very low base = hence I am struggling with the book. I will now try and re-record some of the clips I already have.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony.

The videos didn't take any longer to make than is shown here. They are just OBS recordings of me playing with the program in real time and uploaded to this topic.

Really no bother to help. I got a lot of help here when I first joined the forums. Just trying to put back some of that kindness.

Ray.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony,

If you haven't watched them already, I suggest you watch my 2 tutorials on Everything Audio so that you get a good overview of what can be done. Here is a link to the first one:

Between you and Ray, I believe that you have figured out most of the essentials.

Here a few more things to do before recording for real:

1. Write up the script. Use words that don't sound formal but similar to the way you speak. Use words that you can pronouce easily. Try to avoid having a sentence run on to another page. Use paragraphs that are not too long.
2. Use headphones. I use an M-Audio M-Track external audio interface that allows me to monitor my microphone and the audio from the program. Never record with audio going out to your speakers - only to headphones.
3. Use a good microphone. I won't go into the details.
4. Make sure that Video clips have video/audio on separate tracks so that you can mute the audio and still see the video. Do this in the Program Settings.
5. Click on Advanced in the recording screen and check the box for mono recording unless your mic actually does stereo, which is not likely. Leave Realtime adjustment... checked. Do not check Automatic volume reduction - that is for ducking and is something better done separately.
6. Before recording anything, make sure to have saved the project with an appropriate name. This name will be used by default on the main recording screen - Save audio file as - with 0001 appended.
7. Save in folder - the My Record folder is there by default (see Program Settings/Folders tab) and I suggest that you create a subfolder for each project to keep the narrations with the project. Don't forget to change this when opening another project and recording as the previous path will still be there.
8. Make sure that no range is set on the timeline. Otherwise, recording will stop at the end of the duration of the range and you'll be wondering what happened.
9. I use track 6 for my narrations. Track 5 is used by Magix for any Magix sound effects or music from the Audio tab. I suggest that you give the track a special colour so that you'll remember which track to put narration on.
10. Click in the track header to make it blue - selected and that is where the recording will be placed unless something is in the way on that track.
11. Recording quality, as Ray mentioned, should be DAT for 48kHz.
12. Decide whether or not you want Play while recording checked. If checked, if the image/video material runs out while recording, recording will stop. You may not want this to happen. Also, you may not want to hear other audio whilst recording; I find this very distracting. You can Mute other audio material.
13. Do some tests and try to record between -8 db for the loudest sounds and -20 db for the lowest. Try different distances from the mic. For mine, I try to have my mouth about 6-8 inches away. Any further and you'll hear more background noise is you have to increase the gain. Too close and plosives may cause distortion. I have a problem with some sounds and words that I emphasize too much and get a spike. These should not go to 0db.
14. Do a normalization of a few test recordings. Click and hold the mouse on the middle handle of the audio to see by how much your audio was raised. If more than 8db, then you are recording too low and you'll need to make a slight adjustment upwards or get closer to the mic.
15. Keep a sample recording to get a Noise Print for noise reeduction. Leave a few seconds at the beginning before recording then record several seconds of your voice.
16. If you are continuing recording from a previous session, play back the last part and speak with it to try to get the same voice timbre and speed. Without doing this, it can be obvious that something in your voice changed from one sentence to another. This is especially important if you have to go back and redo a sentence at a later date.

Recording:

1. Take several deep breathes before hitting the record button.
2. Try not to rustle the paper (script) during recording, or tap anything or move in your squeaky chair.
3. If you hear any background noises, dog barking, truck going by, redo the recording.
4. Do not record more than 4 or 5 sentences. Your mouth will dry out and you'll run out of breath.
5. Breathe between sentences, turning your mouth away from the mic. You can edit these out later.
6. Leave a very short pause at the beginning and end that you edit out later.
7. If you make a mistake after a couple of sentences, stop recording, accept it, trim back to the end of the good sentence.
8. In all cases, note on your script where you ended a recording (the good part) so that you'll know where to start the next time. I use 2 slashes.

Post-recording (definitely not a complete list):

1. Check that there is no clipping. Look at the waveform. If you have spikes that go to the top, play back the audio. If distorted, do it again.
2. Look at the waveform. If there are some large peaks, you will have to edit these down using the volume curve.
3. Trim out anything not needed.
4. Get and install YouLean Loudness Meter 2. Go to the Mixer and add it as an effect to your track. More on this in another post. Play back the object(s). YouLean will indicate the LUFS (perceived Loudness Units) of your audio and indicate any spikes that go above -1db. If below -23LUFS, your recording is too low and you can increase the volume of the object (manually or by normalizing). If any spikes show up that are above 0db, you have distortion and you should redo the recording if problematic or at least adjust the volume of the spikes using the object volume curve.
5. Add some Compression to the track if this is an overall problem. You want to get the louder parts compressed down towards the lower parts allowing you to increase the overall volume.
6. Noise Reduction. If you hear any hiss or unwanted constant background noise in your recordings, especially in the pauses, you should use the Noise Reduction tool in the Audio Cleaning tool (just double-click on an audio recording). This is another topic requiring a tutorial. ME3 has a more advanced tool for this. Sound Forge Audio Cleaning lab is a much updated version of ME3 and contains even better tools and plugins. Again, another subject but part of the overall process.

Note on Normalizing. The hardest problem is getting constant perceived volume for your narration. You will notice that some recordings will have higher spikes that others. If you have a recording with a high spike and normalize, the gain increase may be, say, 2db. Another recording with no large spikes may go up by 10 db when normalized. When played back, the first one will sound lower than the second one. If you take a look at several normalized recordings, you'll get a good idea of the best volume increase. Then, you can adjust the gain of each recording or adjust the track volume in the Mixer. In the latter case, remove normalization (reset the object volume to 0db). This still may cause some recordings to distort. You'll have to identify these using YouLean, and reduce the spikes using the object volume curve. Even then, you still may have some recordings louder than others. Use your ears and the tools and make adjustments as appropriate.

Volume Curve - to quickly make keyframes on the object volume curve, I turn on Curve mode (shortcut 9) and draw on the curve. Remember to press on 6 to get out of curve mode or you may make undesirable changes to an object.

In the image below, I reduced the volume of the spike using the Curve mode. The object volume curve is linked to the Audio Effects/General/Volume effect in the Media Pool and the keyframes show in the keyframe area.

This is still an iterative process as I have to go back, play back watching YouLean, and make further adjustments if necessary.

Now you are probably getting an idea as to what Voice Over specialists and Sound Technicians do. Audio is not easy.

We haven't even touched on other effects, like EQ and ducking or using Snap Markers to line up audio edits.

Here is a link to another thread about Audio and YouLean.

John CB

John - very helpful. I have improved my microphone sound with your advice. I have downloaded the YouLean Loudness meter program - I presume the free version to start with? I have been searching both the Magix manual, and online. I have failed your test re loading and using the plugin. You mentioned that you have a post which would be helpful? I saw one post, but I still didn't get past "go". Would you mind pointing me in the correct direction?

John - I have installed the plug in and have it working - will test again tomorrow. Thanks to you - I am still progressing!

Tony

@browj2 @Tony-Haack

Hi.

Call me new fashioned, but I would prefer to script and use a Teleprompter app for my Android phone of which several are available free or quite cheap off the net. No page rustling and you can set a read speed. Or you could just use your phone and type a text message to yourself. Even the use of notepad on the monitor with the advantage of being able to rewrite and keep the text looking clean.

I have now even bothered to set up my desk mic stand again although I really need to sort out my mic stand and boom arm so it can be set to one side of me. I need to clear a bit of space first though.

I have also got a curved sound absorbing acoustic foam panel I place behind it to reduce any ambient noise except from the front of the mic.

I find around 4" for a warmer studio sound and six to eight for a more neutral sound. The combination of pop shield, foam and 'dead cat' cover on the mic is enough to reduce plosives talking at a 45° angle to the mic. The mic has two cardioid capsules set at 90° to each other and set into a sound isolation mic holder.

If you can find a free vst on the net, look for a gate plugin that will cut the signal off below a set level. Preferably one with a soft knee function then you don't have to worry about background noise reduction at low levels as I personally find using noise prints always removes some of the frequencies of what I want in the recording. You would need to set that up on the individual sound channel with the vocal rather than in the Master output.

EQ first, then Gate, then compress. Or cut the audio into blocks to help adjust individual levels or use the volume curves and then do the rest.

With the Magix Mixer effects you may notice a box with the word 'Link' in it. It does not link left to right channels but links adjacent controls like the sliders on the graphic equaliser. Unlinking allows individual slider use without effecting the neighbouring sliders. The mixer itself has a few unique features which I'm sure John's videos will go into in more depth.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I just checked my comfort distance from the mic and it's about 4-5 inches. It's best to test different distances.

Most of my plosives are actually just speaking louder, too loud, emphasizing something, so I don't use a dead cat.

A teleprompter is great for recording video of you speaking, but not needed for just Voice Over/narration.

I have a CM25B mic that came from the Scarlett Studio that my wife bought and doesn't use. It's a condenser mic, cardioid pattern, with XLR connector., requiring 48V phantom power. There is a mark (a cardioid response pattern) that identifies the front of the microphone and it's important to be in front of the mark. I have a foam pop filter, no dead cat. It's connected to my M-Audio M-Track. I monitor with the headphones that came with the kit, iTrack Studio HP60B connected to the M-Track with monitor mix set to be a little more than half Direct, less from the USB/computer.

I have the mic mounted on an adjustable boom arm microphone stand: Pyle PMKSH04 with shockmount.

Noise Reduction: I usually have good success with the built-in Noise Reduction tool in VPX/MMS, with the reduction amount of 8db max. Any more and there is noticeable chirping. The best De-Noiser that I have used is iZotope RX-10 Voice De-Noise but it's VST3 and cannot yet be used with VPX/MMS, unfortunately. I have to send the audio to the external audio editor which is currently set to Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab 3 because 4 is broken. The Learn command usually does a good job at getting the Noise Print. The next or probably even better, is iZotope RX-10 Repair Assistant.

Within VPX/MMS, I have iZotope RX-7 which does a better job than the built-in Magix De-Noiser.

Another one seems great is SpectraLayers Elements 9 Noise Reduction. It comes with SFACL4 but has a playback marker problem between SpectraLayers and SFACL. It works fine as a standalone and is an amazing tool for spectral cleaning. I played with it a bit when I got it. There is a selection tool and you can select (multiple selections) what you consider to be noise before making the Noise Print. This is not available for use with the video editors.

Oops. The forum is not letting me insert images anymore. I'll try updating.

The main objective is to reduce any background noise, not necessarily eliminate it.

With this in mind, I don't use a Gate as I find that a little background noise is better than none, especially at pauses. This is important if there is noticeable background noise as it gets removed when not talking and is quite distracting. I have not had any great success with these. However, the Magix eFX Gate with the preset for Voicieover Gate has the threshold set at -41db, so it's not too intrusive. It also has a high pass filter that is on by default. I usually have this set in the equalizer as shown below for the Melda MDynamicEQ for 3-band de-esser.

One can play around with these forever.

@Tony-Haack

Hi Tony,

You only need the free version of YouLean. Here are my settings.

I use ASWG P which puts the target at -18 LUFS. I have the M button turned on at the bottom right which shows Momentary Loudness. You can disable S to see a coloured Momentary Graph.

I also put YouLean on any audio track, including background music and check them, and on the Master FX strip of the Mixer so that I can see the overall combined effect.

There is another free one that you can try from Melda - MLoudnessAnalyzer. It does about the same thing but allows you to adjust the volume to get the Target Loudness. However, the graphing is not near as good as with YouLean. You can download the Melda tools and just install the free ones.

It's important to check the music as songs are not all equal. One may be louder than another. One may sound louder than another due to the dynamic range. Thus, you have to use the tool and your ears to get an overall good /pleasing sound level.

John CB