MEP2021 and MMS2023 Crashing on Virtual Dub Plugin Load Attempt

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 1:09 AM

Both programs are crashing at the point I try to search for my 63-bit VDub plugins; I get to the small Windows browser window looking for the plugins but then it freezes and bang.

@johnebaker

John, in this post:

https://www.magix.info/us/forum/using-virtualdub-filters-in-mep-2016--1159857/#ca1212957

You gave a folder path, but I can't see the image of it, apart from the one showing how to load them via the Effects>Plugins method.

Could you explain where that folder is? If I could drop my plugin in there, it might stop MMS crashing.

Comments

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 1:29 AM

Got a little bit further this time, but then froze here:

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 2:12 AM

This is a VDub plugin I'm trying to get into MMS; "Colormill":

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V_f9GJhycsS7FTq1DqJOO9HgNwl3oO2R/view?usp=drive_link

johnebaker wrote on 6/1/2023, 4:01 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al

The ColorMill plugin behaves oddly in MMS 2023 - it is not detected in the folder location where it is, a manual search finds and inserts the effect into the video/image object and works, however it occassionally crashes the program when I try to do any other action.

I did manage to save the project without crashing, however on reloading the saved project it crashes again - the program is not picking up the plugin on startup.

In MEP 2016 it is located correctly and works fine no crashing, saved project reloads and plugin is detected on startup.

Looks like a bug in MMS 2023 as I get a crash error code which indicates a Buffer overrun in MMS 2023, and MMS is not picking up the plugin again on restart

Need to do more testing with other VDub plugins.

John EB

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 4:33 AM

Thanks John. I love my Colormill! 😊 (Show @browj2 what a real Levels controller does!).

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 4:50 AM

@AAProds @johnebaker

Hi.

Although I have never used this and are not sure what either of you are going on about, have either of you visited the Virtualdub website to look at the problems page with crashing?

To me it looks like it is possible that computing has come a long way and the person developing it hasn't kept up with the changes. Not that anyone can blame an individual for that. Last date on the website I could find was 2021.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 5:22 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, it's only a plugin, not the program itself, and it runs OK on VDub. I agree that time waits for no man/woman/software, and 32-bit stuff is now falling by the wayside, however when Magix can't navigate the folder that these plugins are in, let alone actually use them, all it indicates to me is that Magix quality control is falling by the wayside, especially when it used to work OK in earlier versions.

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 6:02 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Have you tried loading an older version of MEP to see if everything still works in that version?

My point is that the person behind Virtualdub doesn't seem to have done anything to it since 2021 but has instead been working on his Atari stuff which has been updated and worked on this year.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 6:18 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, John has, with MEP 2016 he says above, so it works.

I say again, this is a third-party plugin for Virtual Dub. It's got nothing to do with the source code for Virtual Dub itself and it does not rely on VDub to run on Magix. It does, of course, still work with VDub.

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 7:01 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Yes but MEP 2016 is probably using Direct X 9 rather than Direct X 11.1, although John and I suspect 2023 is also using parts of Direct X 12 as well. I have also lost count of the amount of plugins that no longer work in MEP / VPX, possibly down to the limited memory address problems of 32 bit applications with the programs.

How many times have third party effects suppliers had to update their plugins to work within newer versions of the Magix video editors? If the problem is with the plugin does this page help at all?

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 7:17 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, that topic indicates the plugin is fully operational. After I checked it, that's why I congratulated them! 👍

I keep saying, my issue isn't actually with that plugin, it's with Magix not even tolerating being pointed in the general direction of where those plugins are. If it has been programmed no longer to accept plugins then that's progress, take it off the interface. It is not acceptable for the program to crash. This is similar to the nonsense about crashing because people didn't have a particular setting on the Device Options tab. That is just slack programming/quality control, nothing else. And it was Magix' fault, because they patched the crashing away, eventually. How many crashing reports have e had in the last couple of months? Very few.

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 9:14 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Looks like ticket time then before the next version is released.

I didn't notice your post at the bottom of that page.

Ray.

browj2 wrote on 6/1/2023, 9:28 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al,

Thanks John. I love my Colormill! 😊 (Show @browj2 what a real Levels controller does!).

...as compared to NB ColorFast2 and Pixelan FilmTouch 2 Pro? What does Colormill do that ColorFast2 and FilmTouch 2 Pro cannot and vice versa?

The only VirtualDub plugins that I used were NeatVideo and Gradation, way back.

I added Gradation_x64.vdf (64bit version) on the new machine for VPX. It opened but then crashed VPX after pressing OK.

To go along with these, it is helpful if you have the scopes in VPX. I suggest that you upgrade; you won't go back.

Also, you can have the modified version of the image in the Preview Monitor and the original (or one of the Comparison images) in the Source Monitor.

EDIT: Gradation_x64 now crashes VPX when I try to open Gradation in the Plug-ins Manager now crashes VPX before getting any further than the rectangle of the effect window.

I added in Colormill and am able to open the interface, make changes, Ok, Ok, pause, crash.

John CB

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 9:29 AM

@CubeAce No worries Ray, if I could get Colormill working I'd be in 7th heaven. I'll put in a bug report.

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 9:40 AM

@browj2

John, I admit I'm only basing my comments on the base model Magix software without all the plugins, which I suppose is what Colormill is. I just find it so intuitive and easy that it really helps me. I still maintain that the Gamma correction high/mid/lows in MMS is fundamentally flawed and is next to useless for me.

browj2 wrote on 6/1/2023, 10:20 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al,

Did you not get NB ColorFast or ColorFast 2 with one of the upgrades?

See my updated comments about my trials with Gradation and Colormill.

I presume that your link was to the 64bit version of Colormill.

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

Where should the VirtualDub files be located. I just created a folder under my Documents and put them there.

John CB

johnebaker wrote on 6/1/2023, 10:21 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al

. . . . I still maintain that the Gamma correction high/mid/lows in MMS is fundamentally flawed . . . .

If you mean the Low, Mid and Highs are mutually exclusive I agree. To get the equivalent the Gradation curve in VPX performs a similar function.

Here is an example:

Result - left original, right result

John EB

browj2 wrote on 6/1/2023, 11:43 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al,

If you mean the Low, Mid and Highs are mutually exclusive I agree. To get the equivalent the Gradation curve in VPX performs a similar function.

Another reason to get VPX - gradation curves.

I just tested ColorMill with MEP2021Plus - no problems. But Gradation causes crashing-restart MEP.

EDIT: I take that back. I added a Colormill effect to a second object, saved, exited and the program restarted by itself advising me that it couldn't load the project. Somehow, a backup was made with _Old.MVP appended. Strange. From then on, adding a second Colormill effect causes a crash.

John CB

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 11:59 AM

@AAProds @johnebaker

@browj2

Hi John.

Personally I still think this points to differences in the use of Direct X as the handling of 2D graphics was changed to be handled by the 3D graphics portion of the application in Direct X 12.

I don't think that change was retrospectively added to earlier versions so Direct X 9 and possibly Direct X 11 were not effected (although 11 could be, I'm not sure). As Direct X 12.1 contains the earlier versions of Direct X within it I'm assuming the earlier versions of MEP and VPX are using that.

We will probably have to await a Magix reply, if one comes.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 6/1/2023, 1:22 PM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . I still think this points to differences in the use of Direct X as the handling of 2D graphics was changed to be handled by the 3D graphics portion of the application in Direct X 12 . . . .

Where was this changed ?

I have only DirectX 12 installed on both PC and laptop thus MEP 2016 is using the same DirectX as MMS 2023.

The major difference between DX 11 and 12 is that 11 is operates at a higher level, ie is more isolated from the hardware than DX 12 which operates at a lower level, more direct connection to the hardware.

MMS crashes with an error code - C0000005 which is an access violation error caused by a buffer overrun, followed by a C000041d error which is an 'unhandled exception was encountered during a user callback'. MMS is not liking something with the response back from the plug-in after closing said plug-in, while you are adjusting the plug-in it works fine.

Add to this that the Plugin scan does not detect the plug-in after scanning the Plug-ins paths, see image below, yet it can be loaded when manually searched for, suggests a bug in MMS 2023.

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 6/1/2023, 4:28 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

I'm sure I had that conversation with you along with a link to the web page at the time.

Direct X 12 has a Direct X 9 layer for the want of a better term within it that older programs can access as far as I remember.

The files can be found in Windows \ SysWOW64.

Trying to look back for old Microsoft articles without the exact search terms I'm finding most difficult.

I've been trying to find the article but so far no luck.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 6/1/2023, 8:12 PM

Oh so close! @browj2 gave me an idea, so I put Colormill into it's own folder on the root of my C drive and MMS found it with no issue.

I got it opened, made some adjustments and then closed it. Unfortunately, MMS crashed shortly thereafter, as you guys are finding.

With MEP 2021, I am finding the same as @browj2.