@magix_dr

Hi

. . . . my sony video . . .

From a Sony phone, camera or video camera and which model?

As @me_again has commented, this could be variable frame rate video.

For the MediaInfo data, see this tutorial on how to set up MediaInfo and analyse a video clip for all the data required, also analyse the WAV file and post the analysis.

John EB
Forum Moderator

@magix_dr

Hi,

Further to what the others said, rather than deleting the audio that comes with the video, leave it there. Move both the video/audio and imported audio files a bit to the right to give the program some space to move the objects. Select both audio parts (with the video still grouped to its audio), right-click on the first audio part, and select Align other audio objects with this track. If it works, great. That is how we normally get them aligned.

John CB

Hi,

First of all - thanks for your answers.

Below you will find some info about my files:

General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : G:\__SOURCE\2024_01_NON_IRON\sony\00757.MTS
Format                                   : BDAV
Format/Info                              : Blu-ray Video
File size                                : 1.98 GiB
Duration                                 : 16 min 21 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 17.3 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 18.0 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2024-01-24 19:11:56+02:00
Writing application                      : Sony

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=2, N=13
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 16 min 22 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 16.2 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 16.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan type, store method                  : Separated fields
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.312
Stream size                              : 1.85 GiB (93%)
IrisFNumber                              : 1.800000

Audio
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 16 min 22 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -80 ms
Stream size                              : 52.4 MiB (3%)
Service kind                             : Complete Main
AC3_metadata cmixlev                     : -3.0 dB
 surmixlev                               : -3 dB

Text
ID                                       : 4608 (0x1200)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : PGS
Codec ID                                 : 144
Duration                                 : 16 min 22 s
Delay relative to video                  : -80 ms

.... and second (audio):

General
Complete name                            : G:\__SOURCE\2024_01_NON_IRON\WAV\R_20240123-192407.wav
Format                                   : Wave
Format settings                          : PcmWaveformat
File size                                : 409 MiB
Duration                                 : 37 min 10 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 1 536 kb/s

Audio
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 37 min 10 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 408 MiB (100%)

@browj2 I will try your method tomorrow and back to you with results ;-)

Rgds Darek

Hi John,
I just tried your method. Unfortunately, it's even worse - the program sets the audio track incorrectly - and at no point is it synchronized with the picture.
I don't have a problem with the synchronization itself. I am able to set the common point of picture and sound (such as hitting a snare drum or cymbal) with relative precision at the start. However, when I start a movie - the audio file "runs" faster than the picture and, for example, the sound of the singer appears much faster than you can see in the picture. At about 30 seconds of the movie this shift is already about 10 seconds!
Both audio files have a sampling rate of 48000

Rgds Darek

@magix_dr

Darek, your WAV file (37min) is more than twice as long as your video (16min). It should show you that on the timeline, with the audio object for the WAV being much longer than the video object.

I'm not an expert on audio but it seems to me that you need to redo your WAV.

@magix_dr

Hi Darek,

I agree with what @AAProds (Al) has just said: there is something "seriously different" about that separate wav file!

Are you willing to post just that file to a file-sharing site - I use wetransfer, it's free for files up to 2GB - and then post the link here, or PM me the link if you don't want to share it publicly? I do quite a lot of pure audio work and would very much like to look at your audio file. From what you say I suspect it is not actually 48kHz but at a higher sample rate.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

A brief explanation. The concert consisted of two parts. The first 37min, the second 45min. I have a separate WAV file for each part of the concert.
The SONY HDR-XR500 camera was turned (almost) on non-stop; During the recording, about 2GB files are created - each about 16min long. So for one WAV file I need three MTS from the camera.
So I take the first WAV file - and synchronize it with the first (one of three) files from the camera. My starting (sync) point is the drum beat. However, after just a few seconds you can see that it doesn't match - and after about 30sec this offset is already on the order of 10sec.

OK. I will try to send the first WAV file (about 400MB),
and a snippet from the first camera file (the whole has about.2GB) What is the best way to trim the mts file?

Rgds Darek

@magix_dr

Darek, you can use AVIDemux, as per my guide here to trim your file and make a snippet:

https://www.aaproductions.net/avidemux.htm

Mark out the first roughly 30sec or so. That should be about 150mb.

Google Drive is another good file hoster. Just remember to set the "sharing" to "anybody with the link".

Another thing to check: are the video files on the timeline indicating the correct length eg 16minutes long and also, that the WAV file/s are the correct length too.

There is the "Object stretch" mouse mode which allows you to lengthen or shorten the audio object. I use this often if I have an increasingly out of sync condition. It's normally only a few seconds over an hour though, unlike yours.

One more thing: watch the vide closely: 10sec out in 30 is an appreciable speed up or down and may be noticeable; you may be able to ascertain which is playing in error, the video or the audio.

@magix_dr

If you are trying to synchronise that longer wave file with a video file which contains only the first part of the content of the audio file, I am not surprised that all the previous suggestions do not work!

You must ensure that ALL the video files required to "match" that audio file are on your timeline. MEP will try, very hard, to ensure the audio file is, as near as possible, the "same length" as the video. Hence, the considerable speed-up you are hearing!

In practice, I suspect you may need to export your 3 mts video files to create ONE file which you can then place on your MEP timeline and then add your separate wav file and synchronise them.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@magix_dr @emmrecs

Darek, I'd second Jeff's suggestion. You can smart-join your three video files with AVIDemux; that will join them up without re-rendering them (as all will be the same codec), which is what would happen if you did it in Magix. After opening the first file, for the second use File>Append, then again for the third.

@emmrecs, @magix_dr

Hi

. . . . From what you say I suspect it is not actually 48kHz but at a higher sample rate. . . . .

That was also my thought, an odd bitrate, however for this to speed up I would have expected it to be a lower sample rate.

However,

. . . . You must ensure that ALL the video files required to "match" that audio file are on your timeline. . . . .

I have been testing various WAV files of different sample rates, in the range 16 - 192 kHz and 16, 24 and 32 bit depths, with video of the same specs ( from my HDR-XR520VE )as the MediaInfo provided, also adjusting the sound card settings to different sample rates/bit depths, and cannot replicate the issue.

With the original files, we may find something different with the files.

John EB

All in all, I didn't want to use the automatic synchronization function [Align other audio objects with this track].

I thought that if I set the footage from the camera on one track (one, two or three files - that is, about 16, 32, 48min), and put 37min of wav on the other track, and then manually set the position of the wav file relative to some characteristic point (e.g., a drum beat), the rest would "automatically" match - because, after all, the duration of the song on the video from the camera and on the WAV file should be the same. I can trim the redundant audio track (with 1 or 2 mts files) or video (with 3 mts files).
I haven't used (and don't want to use) the Align other audio objects with this track function - because then indeed both tracks should be of similar length.

I have done other projects in a similar way. At that time I had video footage from 2 cameras. (Files from each camera placed on a separate track), and on the third track I had an MP3 file. [On subsequent tracks subtitles etc]. At that time, I did not use multicam mode, or the Align other audio objects with this track function. I aligned all the elements on the timeline manually - and everything matched.
Now I'm doing the same thing, but instead of my own mp3 files I used before, I want to use a WAV file I received from the mixing table.

And I can't figure out what the problem is.... and how to solve it

Rgds darek

@magix_dr

Hi Darek

. . . . And I can't figure out what the problem is.... and how to solve it . . . .

That is why we need samples of the video file and the wav file to determine if this is reproducible and can find a cause, or there is something unique to your PC.

What is the sound card/chipset in your PC and its settings as found in the Properties dialogue shown below

John EB

@magix_dr

Greetings Darek,

"The movie starts synchronized, but after few seconds ..... Wav file seems to be too slow"

Is the pitch and tempo the same?

Have you tried leaving the video audio on the timeline, putting the WAV on the timeline below it and create the waveform displays? Then you can roughly cut the WAV to the clip you want and move to match up with the video audio by lining uo the 2 starts and seeing how the "peaks and troughs" compare on each line. Once you've roughly lined everything up then you can play about with it to get it in sync using the stretch mouse or timestretch or resample.

I know this is simplistic and will probably send waves of horror through the people that know about these things but it will give you an idea of what's wrong and possibly how to fix it.

It's something I do infrequently but strangely I find it quite therapeutic.

AndyW

@magix_dr

Hi Darek,

Thank you for the PM and link to those files. Are you prepared to make the link public so that others can download them and try to achieve audio/video sync? If so, please copy here the link you sent me, or I can do this but will not without your agreement!

Having looked at them I have to say that the .mts file simply would not play on my machine at all, even if I used the option to reduce resolution etc!! I wonder whether this is because my computer is now distinctly "old" (which it is - I'm having to very seriously consider a major upgrade this year) or whether the problem is the 6-channel audio. I only ever work with stereo files.

So, what I did was to use Handbrake initially to convert your .mts to mp4 with stereo audio. Then I could play it!

However, whatever I tried with the separate audio file, I could not achieve any sort of synchronisation! I even put the mp4 and separate audio files into Red Giant Plural Eyes 3.5, an industry standard software for achieving audio/video synchronisation; it failed completely! Similarly with the original .mts and audio files.

I even cut the separate audio file to the same length as the supplied video, still no joy!

I'm completely baffled!

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@magix_dr

Hi Darek

Also thank you for the samples.

The video file is, as @emmrecs has commented, difficult to work with in Movie Studio, it takes too long a time to load for its length and playback is not smooth, I also see no video (?).

The Wav file appears to sync using the method @browj2 posted above, however the choppy play back makes it difficult to hear if it stays in sync with the video audio. Comparing the waveforms is not possible due to phase differences and audio recording device characteristics.

In Vegas Pro I do see the video, however the WAV audio does not stay in sync being approx 10 secs out after 20 secs of play and increasing as play continues.

I loaded the WAV file into Sound Forge Pro and found what appear to be 2 issues:

• I get a message: 'File is corrupt' with details saying the 'file contained an illegal sample loop' this, AFAIK, means either the end point of the file is set as being beyond the actual end point, or the data chunks do not match what is set in the file header.
  
  This may be why the sync is failing.
   
• There appear to be 3 different audio sections joined together, I can hear 2 jumps, one at approximately 19 secs and the second, not quite so obvious, at 43 secs. This in theory should not cause any issues.

Has the audio file been extracted from a longer recording? If so what software was used to extract it?

John EB

@johnebaker

The video file is, as @emmrecs has commented, difficult to work with in Movie Studio, it takes too long a time to load for its length and playback is not smooth, I also see no video (?).

John, try changing the container from MTS to MP4 with AVIDemux.

Hi Al

Thanks for the heads up, converted and plays smoothly.

The issue is with the extracted video - it has been changed to Constant Bitrate, Progressive from Variable Bitrate.

Technically AVCHD does support Progressive video however there can be playback issues with it.

Next step is to fix the WAV file 'File is corrupt - file contained an illegal sample loop' message in Sound Forge to see if this is the issue and cross check results with Vegas Pro

John EB

@johnebaker, @emmrecs I'm very sorry I didn't check the video file you sent. I trimmed it in HD Video Converter because supposedly lossless and still as mts. Indeed this trimmed file (30sec) takes a very long time to load - probably even longer than the original containing 16min of video.
I trimmed the video again - this time in AVIDemux - but this time I can no longer save it as mts. So I made an mp4. Now it loads much faster. This could also mean that HDVideoConverter generates not fully correct files (after such a simple operation as trimming)
The resulting WAV file was hurriedly summed from all the tracks/channels on the mixing table. Maybe there were some errors during this operation and rush - hence the messages signaled by SoundForgePro. I will contact the acoustician again and ask for the correct files - because the current ones are indeed difficult to match (and this is not the first time I have done this).
Thank you very much for any help and suggestions. I will return to this topic in a few days when I get (hopefully) the correct files. I will let you know if it was indeed a problem with a faulty WAV file.

Rgds Darek

@magix_dr

Hi Darek

Thank you for the additional information.

Hopefully you will have a good outcome with a new WAV file.

John EB

@magix_dr

Darek, You'd be surprised how the file header and or extension messes with Magix's workings. If you reformat the file details, Magix often miraculously then handles it with ease. I saw your MTS is actually just a plain old AVC/H264 video "under the hood", so that's why I suggested AVIDemux to MP4 losslessly, via smart-render. AVC+MP4 is generally well handled by Magix, especially the latest versions.