Hi John,

Thanks, you're right, good lead!

The differences between the Good YT export (from MX) and the Bad (from 2013) are many and very puzzling. Studyng them now. But a 'normal' 2013 export is fine. It's only the YT export (which is fully automated) that is haywire.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

I've tested this again with a very simple project of a JPG (not animated) and an MOV moive clip, total duration 9 seconds.

The results when using 2013 were just as before. Corrupted MP4, twice as long as the original. Works fine in MX and earlier.

No one else noticed this yet?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Feedback from Magix:

"....confirms that the problem originates in the actual encoding process for YouTube, not the upload or anything.... The problem is specific to using the AVCHD/MPEG-4 encoding hardware acceleration."

Peter, John, Jeff:

Do you have H/W Accel enabled  in Program Settings > Video/Audio > Export?

Have you any comments on HD MP4 rendering performance with v without it?

Have you encountered this YT issue (using the Share route)?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry
 

I guess they are saying the problem is occuring in MEP and while I do very little with YT I can say that H/W accel is working OK for my MPEG4  AVCHD encodes at present. I do not have that option enabled in Program settings and select it in the MPEG4 export > advanced encoder window. My tests show slightly worse quality (blurring in low contrast detail) with HW accel. but I expect this as this option disables some of the finer quality settings in the Main Concept encoder. Unfortunately I often get encoding failures via the software route if I have Smart rendering enabled and no SR just takes too long.

I have not applied the patch yet as I have a couple of projects which I would like to complete before "pushing the button" (playing it safe).

BTW Terry, you did do a program reset to defaults after installing the update, didn't you? (Sorry to ask that but I seem to remember that this upsets your macros or keyboard short cuts or something).

Peter

Hi Terry, Peter

I have been running with HW acceleration for 2 weeks since Terry raised this issue and have exported 15 test mp4 videos, using the Youtube option from the Share menu, with no problems. 

I am beginning to think the problem is hardware specific.

@ Terry - what video card are you using now?

There is a definite loss in quality on exporting up to Youtube.  The original mp4's before exporting were very clear and sharp, once exported up to Youtube they are more blurred.

I have uploaded from MEP 2013 and used the YT uploader - example HD video on YT is

Using the above video as an example - on my PC the exported mp4 is 1920 * 1080 (full HD) prior to upload, according to the MEP manual this is converted to 720p for YT - this would account for the loss in quality

John

Hi John,

Hi Terry, Peter

I have been running with HW acceleration for 2 weeks since Terry raised this issue and have exported 15 test mp4 videos, using the Youtube option from the Share menu, with no problems. 

I am beginning to think the problem is hardware specific.

Could well be, although I'd like to eliminate a couple of other major possibilities first:

1. Different OS. I use XP, you use Win 7. I think Peter is on XP too so let's see what his YT exports are like.

2. Different MEP 2013 settings. I've made various changes to mine on several occasions recently. I think they are now identical in key respects to Peter's following this thread:
http://www.magix.info/uk/mep-2013-preloading-slow-ineffective.forum.884485.html

For convenience, here again are my important current settings:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP2013-VideoSettings-2.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP2013-SystemSettings-1.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP2013-DisplaySettings-2.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP2013-PlaybackSettings-2.jpg

Could you upload yours or identify all differences please?

@ Terry - what video card are you using now?

512 MB nVIDIA GeoForce 8800GT

I've been exporting to YT via the Share menu for years with same hardware and OS in previous MEP versions with no problem.

--------------------

Here are the full details of that very simple test I summarised earlier. This project gave identical results to the ones I described some days ago, namely:
1. The MP4 created by MEP 2013 in the project folder (and subsequently transferred faithfully to YT) was twice as long as the original.

2. It was corrupted, i.e. the audio was in the wrong place and other weird displacements. Very obviously not faithful to the original. (But then it hardly could be if it was twice as long!)

I just play the exported file created from the Share > YT automated procedure.

As you see, the project had just a single 3 second JPG and a movie clip of about the same, an MOV from my Canon Ixus 220 HS. Total just under 6 seconds.

Here is the result: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/YT-Test-1.mp4

It adds nothing but if you want to play the buggy result on YT in a browser, it's

The correct result should have been an initial silent 3 seconds playback of the JPG plus a movie with sound for the final 2.7 seconds. The actual MP4 created by MEP 2013 is twice that, with sound during the silent image!

An even simpler test was to leave out the movie clip. Just a single JPG. Then the result looked OK, and of course had no screwed up sound, but it was 6 seconds long instead of 3.

To try reproducing, either use your own JPG and movie clip, or unzip and use this Project + Media backup of mine:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP%202013%20YT%20Test.zip

There is a definite loss in quality on exporting up to Youtube.  The original mp4's before exporting were very clear and sharp, once exported up to Youtube they are more blurred.

I have uploaded from MEP 2013 and used the YT uploader - example HD video on YT is

Using the above video as an example - on my PC the exported mp4 is 1920 * 1080 (full HD) prior to upload, according to the MEP manual this is converted to 720p for YT - this would account for the loss in quality

John

Nice stuff - looked a great holiday! But I don't think you had to be so hard on the guy in the green trunks at the end?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry
 

I guess they are saying the problem is occuring in MEP

Yes. But only if H/W Accel is enabled.

Presumably the only significant downside of disabling it is slower rendering? I just rendered a 9m 50s project with both options, to HD MPEG-4 as usual. (A normal export, not YT.) With H/W Accel took 22m 40s, without took 28m 0s, 24% longer.

and while I do very little with YT I can say that H/W accel is working OK for my MPEG4  AVCHD encodes at present. I do not have that option enabled in Program settings and select it in the MPEG4 export > advanced encoder window. My tests show slightly worse quality (blurring in low contrast detail) with HW accel. but I expect this as this option disables some of the finer quality settings in the Main Concept encoder. Unfortunately I often get encoding failures via the software route if I have Smart rendering enabled and no SR just takes too long.

I have not applied the patch yet as I have a couple of projects which I would like to complete before "pushing the button" (playing it safe).

Ah, that could be important, I hadn't realised you were still unpatched. It's possible that I have successfully used Share > YT from the pre-patched 2013. All I can be sure of is that it's consistently failed using 12.0.2.2.

BTW Terry, you did do a program reset to defaults after installing the update, didn't you? (Sorry to ask that but I seem to remember that this upsets your macros or keyboard short cuts or something).

Peter

No. Why would I do that? But as you know I have changed my settings following our recent detailed discussions and your latest advice.

See also my reply to John

Re KB shortcuts, I still use those I learned several versions ago, probably going right back to MEP 11!  But I don't think that affects the issue here?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry

These are my MEP 2013 settings

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85852714/MEP%202013%20%20Playback.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85852714/MEP%202013%20DisplaySettings.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85852714/MEP%202013%20SystemSettings.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85852714/MEP%202013%20VideoSettings.jpg

I have highlighted the differences and included this image of my Systray

As you can see very little running there.

Holiday was fantastic - cloudless skies for 18 out of 19 days - great videoing weather

The guy in the green trunks was the bad guy - video shot in the amphitheater in Trier - you should have seen the female gladiator - she was vicious. They had a photoshoot while they were practising for a performance.

John

Feedback from Magix:

"....confirms that the problem originates in the actual encoding process for YouTube, not the upload or anything.... The problem is specific to using the AVCHD/MPEG-4 encoding hardware acceleration."

Peter, John, Jeff:

Do you have H/W Accel enabled  in Program Settings > Video/Audio > Export?

Have you any comments on HD MP4 rendering performance with v without it?

Have you encountered this YT issue (using the Share route)?

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry.

In VPX4 and MEP MX Premium (I don't have MEP 2013) this option appears not to be present so I can't directly answer your question.

Looking at the settings that John has posted, mine are broadly similar (where there is a direct comparative with the versions I have.)

I've never used the YT Uploader built into MEP/VPX, preferring to log on to YT via Chrome and use the website's own uploader.

Jeff

Hi Guys

Terry - I am on Vista 32Bit BTW. I have tried a test more or less identical to yours using a MOV of yours and a jpeg of mine and export went fine at 1080p setting to YT without ticking the "Program Settings >Audio/Video >Hardware Acceleration for MPEG4/AVCHD export if possible" option. Ticking this option and trying the same upload again brings up a message saying that this file has already been uploaded and gives you a choice to export, or upload to Magix. Choosing "export" then brings up that warning you have seen before that the "HW accelerated MPEG4 export has failed because of an unspecified error". Closing the program and opening it again, with the HW option ticked in Program settings, successfully exports using CUDA with no less quality and corruption than the Software Option (actually better - see my final comment). So, this random failure / success behaviour is typical of the unpatched 2013 as we discuused in a thread a month or two back when you were having YouTube problems. BTW I believe that new option in Audio/Video settings was put there in this version so that you could activate HW automatically when using the share path because previously there was no opportunity (window) to set it using this path. This change may be what is making it come unstuck although John's experience seem to say that it is not causing problems on his system. It may be possible that as you suggest that differences in OS may have an effect but it is probably because Vista and 7 can use DX11 and yours can't and more likely that John's 64 Bit version is helping.

Anyway we will have to see if the patch helps my situation when I apply it.

Re - Your question about resetting program settings to defaults - Sorry but I thought all the experts have been unanamous for some time about making sure this step is carried out after a patch/update and I think this came from Magix too. I think it is necessary to get changes to "stick" - especially if there have been new options added in the program settings Tabs or they have decided that having options selected (or not) gives better performance in most cases. I know the experts in the French and German forums are always advising the reset after patching. I know in my case I would always do it and try it for a while before re ticking options I had previously changed.

John

Where did you read in the manual that YT converts to 720 when you upload 1080? The "share" setting gives you the FullHD export option in MEP and YT subsequently displays an option to show it in 1080, which it would not do if that quality was not available from the upload. I think the problem as we have discussed not long ago is that the narrow bandwidth of the upload (portal) is consumed by the high pixel count of 1080, meaning that the data compression has to be higher, leading to the blurring of detail (typical of MPEG4 compression) evident in your test. I found that uploading to YT through their uploader from a downresed 720 file actually gave me better results than uploading the same1080 file. Maybe that is what Magix found also. 

To add a bit more fuel to the fire - my above "TerryTest" HWA upload file in my export folder showed a significantly better spec file in Media info than the prior software option file 5000Kbps Vs 3600Kbps, with a 5.0 profile vs a 4.0 profile???

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for taking the time to test the YT export. It will be interesting to see if the problem arises when you install the patch. And, yes, it's puzzling that John doesn't get the problem.

That 'consensus' about resetting to defaults after installing a new version surprises me. Seems a bit implausible IMO, as settings are surely to be preserved? And a message is displayed reminding you that your old settings await you in a BAK file for prompt restoration.

Anyway, just in case there is some obscure magix going on inside that feature, apart from merely restoring the INI file back to initial defaults, I used it. Then I immediately tried a YT export of a 7 second JPG, with same results as begfor (it becomes 14s long). Have now restored my settings (and in particular my keyboard settings, which are significantly different to the defaults, as mentioned before).

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry and Peter

Why does not John see this problem - I think, as I said in two post previous, I think this is a specific hardware issue.

Both of you are using a CUDA (Nvidia) graphics card - I use an OpenCL (ATI) card.  We need someone who is using and ATI card (ideally a 6450) to compare. 

I am not a fan of NVidia cards    so I do not have one to swap out for testing. I might have to bite the bullet though if AMD don't get out a 3D card for shuutter glasses

@ Peter

Where did you read in the manual that YT converts to 720 when you upload 1080?

Bottom of page 263 in the manual.

John

Hi Terry

Re the reset to defaults - as I said I would always do it and try it for a while before re ticking options I had previously changed. I guess my feeling is that the reset may do more than just what you see and can change on those tabs. Also by seeing any changes made by the patched defaults in comparison to the previous defaults sometimes gives insight into what Magix consider will give the best overall performance for most systems. 

Peter

Hi John

Are you sure your YT uploads are using HW Accel as you can not actually go into the Advanced encoder settings to physically set it and the tick in Programm Settings only activates it "....if available". Also you said in a previous thread that you had some reduced functionality because you had an ATI card and that encodes took longer, etc. Do you see an indication (using the MEP upload) in the progress bar at the bottom of the screen that confirms OpenCL is active. Mine shows "....(CUDA)...time remaining....".

From the 2013 manual

"Since Flash supports this format directly and most
communities and portals use the format, the film does not need to be re-rendered on
the corresponding server. This avoids loss of quality.
When HD material is uploaded, a resolution of 720p is used for the HD format."

Do you understand what they mean by this because the saved file MEP creates via share is 1080, the film can be played in 1080 on YouTube, so where does it get changed to 720?? ........magicaly, without rerendering!

Looking at your clip (some nice long shots there) with the playback setting on 1080 it definitely looks sharper than with 720 selected. If it is only sitting on their server at 720 then I would not expect to see a difference at 1080.

Peter

Also by seeing any changes made by the patched defaults in comparison to the previous defaults sometimes gives insight into what Magix consider will give the best overall performance for most systems. 

 

Thanks, Peter, good point.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Thanks Jeff.

If I need to upload to YT before Magix fix this, then that's my preferred method too (in Firefox). The alternative of switching off 'H/W accel export if available...' adds about 25% extra rendering time based on the couple of tests I've done. Not a big deal, but that's on top of an already rather slow process (typically nearly 3 times the MP4's duration), and I'm not known for my patience.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Peter

Are you sure your YT uploads are using HW Accel ....

Good question - I am beginning to doubt the results I am getting.

I experienced severe problems with MEP and the ATI 6450 in the last few days and I suspect it is not ( has not been ) working correctly so I have reverted back to my trusty 4350 again which does not support OpenCL. 

As soon as I get a replacement graphics card I can test again - though this may not be for 4 weeks - holiday intervenes . Will be 'off air' most of the time.

John

Just did the update and wished I had not......same results as you Terry for the Share portal. Further more going to the encoder settings advanced window after choosing a HW enabled  1920X1080 50P (HQ) preset shows a profile that is totally spurious - 6000kbps, interlaced, wrong GOP, etc, etc..........Groan!

BTW John, I see since the update there is now a 720p quality setting as well as a Full HD in the YT export box.

Now where is that restore point......?

Happy holidays

Peter 

Hi Peter,

Sorry to hear that in your case the patch gives you a significant problem. For me the pros outweigh the cons. So far I think it's only this YT issue that's unique to 12.0.2.2 for me. I don't use 50 fps, for example.

Have you made a formal bug report?

--------------------

Hi John,

I reckon you'll find that you too get the YT issue when you sort out your H/W problems.

When do you go on hols? No laptop or tablet on the ski slopes?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry

Have a lot of trouble balancing a laptop on the slopes   - will be taking one but for the first 2 weeks mobile dongle does not work well - closed valley with too many high mountains too close, hoping cable Internet is better this year - will have Internet from 30th.

Got a HD5450 today on sale or return but it will not fit in my case - it is too thick, fouls USB 3 card - ordering another 6450 tomorrow.

Will be off air from the 12th - 9 days and counting

John

Further Magix feedback:

...if I'm not mistaken, the problem exists with the "full-HD" and "SD" presets, but doesn't happens with the "720p" and "preview" presets.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Hi Terry

I would not bet on that as it could be just the intermittent nature of the problems that I have observed with the Share>YT and HWA problem, both before and after the patch. For example, I did achieve an uncorrupted Full HD upload yesterday post patch.

I did contact Ralf about our observations a couple of days ago but no reply yet.

Peter