@ericlnz Hi, the process is almost the same as you describe, a mask has to be created in an outside program, there's no Parent/Child & although images can be grouped if you move one image on screen the other grouped image doesn't move with it, So in this case I would prob make a B/W mask of the dots like your blue/white, place that between the two copies of the Katydid images, add chroma key to the B/W & offset the Katydid image,

You need a 32 bit png file to get an alpha layer with transparency for the background.

I've a few PNGs with different Bit depths, most are 32 but there's also, 4, 8, & 24, am I reading this wrong?

----------

Google -

The difference between PNG8 and the PNG24 is, as the name of the formats suggests, that PNG8 only supports 8 bit colors, while PNG24 supports 24 bit colors. PNG32 does not actually have 32 bit colors, but rather it is just 24 bit colors, with an extra 8 bit alpha

I've just read a fair few online search results but so far no answer, my images above clearly have an alpha channel. 🤷‍♂️

@Former user

Hi Gid,

and for anyone else confused over the bit depth issue of using a 32 bit PNG file and whether it matters, it is a normal PNG file similar to a jpeg but uncompressed (not lossy) and refers to 8 bits per colour channel plus the 8 bits for an alpha channel, whereas a jpeg has no ability to my knowledge of producing an alpha channel and would be a 24 bit file and both file types would be read by MediaInfo as 8 bit. Windows would show whether the file was 32 bit in the case of the PNG file or 24 bit in the case of a jpeg file as it would not have the alpha channel needed.

It is possible to make PNG files with lower or higher bit depths if needed. For video though higher bit depths would have to be for HDR content to be useful or would possibly be overkill.

or if you are really fussy you can use Photoshop PSD files in all of the three programs which as far as I can tell is the equivalent of using a raw file but can be read by a video editing program. The reason I mention it is because a PSD file can keep its editing history so if you make a mistake it can be undone using the history brush tool.

The lack of bits comes down to a lack of 'colour variation' or amount of colours needed to produce the image accurately.

Ray.

@CubeAce Thanks, I use GIMP.,

There's some image options i never change

Export png with the default which works no prob in all programs. I don't change these default settings but here I've opened the dropdown.

When I drag a file into GIMP it adds an alpha channel automatically (box always ticked in preferences) but if it doesn't I can right click on the layer,

I've used GIMP for many yrs 15-20 so all my png's will have been created using the same template, why some say 4 & others say 8, 24 etc. I dunno. 🤷‍♂️

---

Just out of curiousity I turned off the Auto add alpha option in GIMP

Vegas 'Save snapshot to file' exports as png, here i exported eric's pic, MediaInfo says 8bit as you say, & in GIMP there was an alpha channel already there without adding one.

MMS Export as png, in GIMP there was no Alpha channel, one would have to be added,

'

@ericlnz

Hi Eric

In the case of your Katydid image the rain spots are easily removed using the Mask Generator in MMS and VPX as shown below

This is the result I got - the top/bottom lines are because I did not adjust the image to match the project AR.

The Mask Generator works with moving objects no keyframing necessary - see this tutorial here.

In your example image the effect works very well as the background is relatively uniform.

John EB

@johnebaker Hi, I recreated your post, you've lost detail esp the antennae.

Thanks everyone. Actually VMS has VEGAS Mask Generator FX but it's not something I've seriously played with.

Here's another simpler exercise. In the left image the bed has a bedpost. How would you remove it in MEP/MS so it looks like the second image?

@ericlnz Is the camera static?

Prob an overlayed partially cloned png created in another program,

For this image you could do similar to the other because the curtain size & colouring works out well, add a mask between the two, position the mask, then offset one of the images,

@ericlnz

Hi Eric,

Could you please make your original transparent mask image available on Dropbox or something? I'd rather not have to redo it.

Thanks,

John

@browj2 You can use my copy if you want, the one that I used in the video earlier, until he shares the orig

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIjKwaHJM_J7VseRMxaLVVGHDqROzshZ/view?usp=sharing

@Former user

Thanks Gid. That is perfect.

John CB

@browj2 @Former user Original mask on Google Drive here.

Comparing it with Gid's copy there's degradation in a few places in Gids

@Former user With the bedpost image - no the camera isn't static as it was handheld.  Actually it's not a shot I'd remove the bedpost from.  I just used it as an example. If I did want to remove it then due to camera movement the mask(s) would need to have their position animated to match camera movement.   Effectively what I'm doing is similar to "cloning" found in image editors.  I do occasionally tidy up video this way by "cloning" background vegetation or blue sky.

No I didn't clone a png.  It was all done in VMS using a method similar to how you describe - a mask and offsetting the masked image to replace the bedpost by curtain.  The masked curtain replacement was an overlay.  I needed an additional second overlay because feathering the "curtain" mask to make it blend in resulted in its bottom blurring the bed edge.  So a second overlay was used with a small narrow mask to "cut out" the bed edge restoring it to how it was originally.

Masking can be creative.  I have a video where I appear to shine a torch along a dark tunnel wall.  I didn't go down a tunnel or shine a torch.  It was all easily created on the timeline.

@browj2 @ericlnz @browj2 @Nalmcruto @Former user @johnebaker

Hi.

Did none of you play with a copy of ProDad Hide?

I have also been playing with masks for a long time.

All of this was done using masks not only to the objects but for the lighting of the objects.

It is difficult to do to two individual video files though. Animating a still image is much easier.

I've added this video showing some of the layers involved from a short section of the video.

Ray.

@ericlnz I right click - copied your blue/white image off screen - pasted in GIMP - removed blue (which bled into the feathered edges of the white, so there more than likely was some degradation, the little circle mask areas seemed quite a bit bigger than the marks on screen so I didn't worry about it.  In that video i used a B/W version, I selected the blue colour on your copied image, replaced it with black, I inverted the selection & pasted white into the little circles because of the blue bleeding into the feathered white, for the video I didn't bother adding back any feather , For the one I shared for @Browj2 I removed the black & feathered the remaining white, so yeah it had a bit of doctoring done to it 👍

'....it was handheld' That's where tracking + masking comes in if the camera moves, not easy because the light prob changes & poss also the focus,

I didn't spend a lot of time on the bed one with the B/W sq mask, I have feathered edge masks but this one had a hard edge so to help blend in the masked area I added a bit of gaussian blur to the mask to feather the edges, which did soften the bed edge a bit, If done properly I'd spend a bit more time & create a dedicated mask &/or overlay,

Yeah I like masking, these techniques are what i had to do in videos for yrs, mainly to hide my no' plate, moving the mask every other frame, MS/VPX has attach to picture position in the video & I tried a few other options but i eventually dug deep in my wallet & bought the program that shall remain nameless 🤫😉

 

Hi.

Did none of you play with a copy of ProDad Hide?

@CubeAce Hi, nope, I only had still images to go on & isn't this post about what could/can be done within MS/VPX, saying that even personalized B/W masks have to be created outside MS/VPX, & I wouldn't use MS/VPX to do this so I understand where you're coming from 👍

PS, I presume there was some kind of exclusion mask created around the speaker? Mocha has Remove which does the same thing, they look quite good tho 👍

@Former user

Hi Gid

. . . . you've lost detail esp the antennae . . . .

That is one of the down sides of using the Mask Generator for very fine detail as in the antennae.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . ProDad Hide . . . .

No, if using a 3rd party software I would use Blender on the video clip before bring it into MMS/VPX eg ..

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

While the ProDad Hide would be no good at your example because my video examples are panned and are not static shots and have complex backgrounds I think Blender would equally be bad with dealing with such a panned clip judging from the example you show so maybe complimentary software depending on the type of video to be processed?

Ray.

@Former user

Hi Gid.

No, the mask produced in ProDad was purely only around the knight and horse. It looks forwards and backwards across the frames and adds the missing background from those frames where the mask is to sit while removing the masked object. Everything else within the frame is left alone.

The amount of processing needed in my system though is excessive and takes hours to render even a few seconds.

There are three sets of quality settings available and I had to use the least quality setting just to get it to work with my setup. It's not a case of compression but how many frames are looked at ahead and behind to find the best match for the missing background and the quality of the outline of the mask itself.

The reason I like it is to create ghosts and still have some background show through.

ProDad Hide was offered with one of the upgrade packages and is not the only stand-alone effect that has been offered by Magix to compliment its software so I thought the inclusion was legitimate 😉😂

Ray.

@CubeAce There's a slight warp to the speaker, prob a bit of parallax to the background, camera moving sort of thing 👍

Into the realm of what doesn't work in MS/VPX so a bit pointless mentioning ...

Mocha is similar, it looks before & after for a frame to fill in, I just removed a man from this clip, because the camera is moving the background has to be tracked, if it's a static camera that isn't necessary, the red car moving into the scene from the left creates problems because of the use of future/previous frames but which frames are used (limited to when red car isn't visible) can be controlled at the bottom 'Motion' , & a mask is added around the red car to stop it getting removed, but as in your vid the grey car doesn't need a mask as it doesn't move, Grey car mask is only there because I use this project for adding inserts & other things.

I did film it but forgot i was recording & started fiddling with new features that were added recently 🤣 so here's a couple of captures.

& If we're talking about other editors for @ericlnz pic/vid, I'd be tempted to use Silhouette, the mark can be tracked if the camera is moving (Roto, Tracker or Mocha), a selection can be cloned from near the dirt mark thereby removing the mark (red blue circles on screen), & then the painted on clone can be pasted on all frames using the tracking to keep it in place, .

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . I think Blender would equally be bad with dealing with such a panned clip judging from the example you show . . . .

That was a simple shot, see the intros in this

and this

ProDad Hide v1 works best where the background is relatively static and has issues where the background is also changing or moving as we have seen in another topic, which I cannot find., where I posted the result of trying to remove a person walking across the scene in front of of a group on stage and the people on stage were also moving .

Added: found the still image of where Prodad Hide fails, do not have the result with me.

If I had a high need and required a quicker process I would agree with @Former user and go for Mocha/Silhouette

John EB

@johnebaker @Former user

Hi John.

You should have put that video up first 👍😂

I think part of my problems are my system is dropping frames trying to use ProDad Hide if I use any other quality mode other than stamp and even then a frame takes longer than five minutes to render and my system is just not up to that amount of workload.

Hi Gid.

Regarding hiding number plates, VPX does a reasonable job using the tracker and pixel blur effect as the number plate normally has a well defined edge to it to track.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi, yep I did that for yrs, remember I've had MEP since 2004, I used to use a mask with it to limit the pixelation, 👍

In 2018 YT took away monetisation of my videos because I only had about 700 subs, you need 1000 to monetise, I wasn't making much, about £60 every 4mths-ish for posting any old crap, Adsense YT's money department or whatever it is don't pay out until there's £60+ in your account, it was an easy few quid for doing next to nothing, so it was either give it up or make better vids to get more subs, I wanted a more professional look in my vids, I wanted it to look good but it also had to be easy, as it is I can easily spend all night editing 20-40 clips just to make a 20min vid to upload, after exporting it needs watching, if there's mistakes or something I don't like the project timeline needs correcting then needs exporting again, I'm sure you know all this but that final exporting & reviewing can take an hr or more, then upload to YT, If I'm on a good job I might put 3 or 4 clips up in a wk, so I needed masking things to be just a function that gets done without much thought, It's not often I put up that many clips in a wk but best viewing time is Saturday, if I've been working n filming all wk that vid needs to get uploaded Fri night,

I've got 900GB 700 clips from last yr I never got edited because the work schedule was messed up, it's hard to make a video when you don't know the ending,,, then I got poorly Oct.

+ I did just want more fx toys to play with., 😁

I've put together a few clips, the no' plates have been changed, my van doesn't normally say Gid Joiner & my bro hasn't got a trike with F4T BS TAD on it, the plywood was just a test I did not long after getting Mocha, it shows exclusion masks for the fingers, the big sign & fire no' plate was for the hell of it, the bus I did just now to show how easy it was & at the end I put my name on a piece of wood, this is to represent the times when i want to put & motion track things in my clips, maybe adding text, pointing something out or it might be lines I've drawn on the piece of work, maybe an overlayed png CAD type thingy 🤷‍♂️

Anyway now I've got 26,000 subs, not as many as others but YT pays my mortgage, (twice+ when I'm putting up reg vids) so these expensive programs aren't exactly necessary but they're affordable if that makes sense, The majority of 'special' fx's i don't put in my clips because my vids are educational, I don't drink or smoke, I haven't got a wife, life, kids, pets or other hobbies but I'd prefer to learn these then sit in front of the TV 😁🤸‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤣👍 ... 😭🤣

BTW I still use MS because it exports a simple 20min UHD project in half the time of Vegas, I can easily add my favoured 12fr crossfade to all clips & normally playback of UHD inc crossfades is fluid, esp important as I'm using my phone's vids that can have a wildly variable frame rate.

9.51mins of those Mocha bits on YT