"I have tried other options from this forum, no result."  

Also, would be nice if you told us what other options you've tried to avoid going over the same thing.

Thanks for reply Johnebaker,

When i mentioned jerky it is related to the final result (after export)  

Hardware:

Quad core i5 2.90 hz 4 gb ram samsung hd 1.5t with about 1.2t freespace windows vista home premium 32bit.
If preview is slow that is for me not a problem. The final result counts after i exported the movie, and so far i now, this can't be a hardware problem because in sony vegas the final result (after i exported the movie) is smooth on t he same machine.
 

If you are stil thinking of a hardware problem then i would please now what System specs and OS would be sufficient and i will try it on that, because i have access to whatever system you ask. (job related)  

You wrote HD requires a powerfull machine but when i drag the original HD movie to timeline it is converted to MPG and very well editable. No slow preview at all, it only takes a while to convert (depending on hardware i think).
Only preview is slow when i convert first to WMV and then drag it into timeline. Because i want good quality it would be nice if the first option would work because converting to WMV before editing gives pore quality (not jerky). And very slow preview. 
 

 Hi David,

Thinks i tried:
.
I used a 30 second long example from my Canon camera (PAL 1280x720 at 30fps. extension MOV)

1 activate MPEG4 codec (succeeded)
2 different machine and os: Intel p4 2.8 ghz 2 Gb windows XP prof. 100gb free disk space. 
2 drag original in timeline where magix first automatically converts it to MPG.
3 before importing in magix, convert with magix to MXV. (using batch converting option). 
4 before importing in magix, convert with magix to AVI. (using batch converting option).
5 before importing in magix, convert with magix to WMV. (using batch converting option).
6 With every importing above i exported to: AVI, WMV, MPEG4. (1280x720 at 30 fps)
Concerning WMV i tried different bitrates as well. (3500kbit 7000kbit) also tried multiplexing auto and complex.
7 after the above i played around with different Framerates in film setting but this makes things worse.
8 install demo sony vegas and export  in WMV 
 

All above (accept for 5 and 8) give same final result: jerky, especially on pan movement in film.

5 No jerky final result.
But I can't work with it because the editing and preview is very very slow even when preview setting is at low resolution.
and also image (colors, sharpness) quality is little worse than when importing in MXV or AVI or just dragging the original to the timeline where magix converts it to MPG.

8 Gives a fine and smooth final result and same quality before importing the original movie.

BUT the final result from sony vegas in the WMV format is 29 fps! (properties from context menu on right click wmv).
On point 5 above, in magix the final result is 30 fps, and also not jerky.
When i import the film in Magix i tried on film properties a framerate of 29 or 29.97 or 30 result makes no different.

Wiebe
 

Weibe,

Looks like you have tried about everything and I'm sorry I've no other suggestions.

One question though, just to state the obvious.  When you look at the playback of the various files attempts you done, are you playing them all on the same media player on your PC?  With my PC I can use MEP16+ to export an MPG4 file, but I can't play it on the PC; not enough processing power.  However, when I play the MPG4 files on my HD TV with WD TV Live I get the excellent playback.

David

Certainly your computer has sufficient procesor power and RAM so that is not the problem.

I suspect the problem lies in MEP converting the MOV files to mpg - one possibility is that it is using the wrong codec for conversion.  Do you have any codec packs eg KLite, installed.

Do you have QuickTime installed?

Is it possible for you to put up a short clip (about 10 - 15 secs long)  for us to have a look at?

I feel the only reason for jerky playback after export, assuming your playback hardware / software is OK, must be due to mismatched frame rates or interlacing field orders between the input and output format or movie settings.

Check your exported file with "Media info" app. (or drag it onto the timeline and check its properties) and see what it reports and you you might find something similar as to what have experienced as in this answer below to another post.

You seem to have been quite thorough in your investigation so far but this may give you some more ideas.

"Hi. There certainly seem to be a few tricks with MPEG4 exports and I am trying to solve the riddle as well, myself.

A couple of observations after a lot of fiddling around:-

The 50p presets in the "file > export movie > MPEG4" are different to those available in the Burn section > encoder settings >advanced settings. If you use the latter and burn an AVCHD disc to the image recorder (iso) you will find the resulting .MTS file in the last subfolder called "Stream".

Whilst trying to encode / upscale some DV-AVI 25fps footage to MPEG4 720p I got very jerky playback and discovered that Media info reported it as having encoded (in several attempts) to 24fps when every setting advanced or otherwise was set to 25fps. I was only able to cure this by the MP4 advanced settings > advanced video settings > advanced tab and where it said "Picture field order". changed this to "bottom first" and then below that "Picture pulldown mode" changed this from "Auto" to "no pulldown". Hint - If you double click the Value field it turns into a dropdown.

It is worth noting that if you change the AVC preset / profile in the "MPEG4 export > Advanced video settings > settings Tab" you must hit reset defaults and then apply to make these things stick. Note though that I have changed the frame type from "Progressive" to "interlaced" here and it does not update the info settings back in the burn screen > encoder settings. Neither does the frame rate change if you alter the [Rate] input or output frame rate in the "advanced settings tab".

I will say that I have been able to export the 1080 50p footage from the Panasonic SD900 camera successfully via the Burn screen as AVCHD 1080 50p AC3 5.1, with no apparent loss of smoothness or resolution despite the fact that as blubb has pointed out, the video bitrate has dropped from the original clips reported 28Mbps to 21Mbps.

The upshot of all this experimenting has only left me feeling that it is very hit and miss when using the various presets and customisation in MEP for MPEG4 as to what framerate you will end up (also with depending on the source material) particularily exporting to 720p.

Hopefully someone can step in and clarify the "best procedure"!

Just a point joho - have you installed all the software that came with your camera as this may install a necessary codec. Alternatively if you analyse an original clip with Media info it will bring up a link where you can go to the website of the found codec and possibly download it from there. Also make sure you have the latest updates for MEP as they have addeded functionality for the 50p footage in recent patches."

Also always "reset program defaults" after applying patches as this makes sure any new settings / features are active (as Magix has determined is the best setup).

Peter
 

Weibe,

Looks like you have tried about everything and I'm sorry I've no other suggestions.

One question though, just to state the obvious.  When you look at the playback of the various files attempts you done, are you playing them all on the same media player on your PC?  With my PC I can use MEP16+ to export an MPG4 file, but I can't play it on the PC; not enough processing power.  However, when I play the MPG4 files on my HD TV with WD TV Live I get the excellent playback.

David

 Thanks David,

Players i use: Windows Media player11, Latest VLC and Quicktime
 

Certainly your computer has sufficient procesor power and RAM so that is not the problem.

I suspect the problem lies in MEP converting the MOV files to mpg - one possibility is that it is using the wrong codec for conversion.  Do you have any codec packs eg KLite, installed.

Do you have QuickTime installed?

Is it possible for you to put up a short clip (about 10 - 15 secs long)  for us to have a look at?

 

 Thanks Johnebaker,

Yes quicktime installed not K-lite
I too think the bottleneck is importing the file, because after dragging to timeline and thus converted to MPG it is jerky in preview in the same way as the end result.
I will come back to you when i have found wich codec for conversion is used.
The question that will come up is, what is the right codec? I will try to find out.
 

Wiebe

Thanks scenestealer,

Much valuble information that can help to solve the problem in the way of nowing how the program is dealing with adjustments in settings. I will get into it and come back to you on this.

Wiebe 

 Hello to all again,

Thanks for all youre ideas I searched futher with the following results.

Here is the technical info you asked for.

Problem stays (jerky video in preview and in final result after in whatever format exporting)

(Codec info, used VLC)

Case 1
Codec from orginal clip from camera:
H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part10) (avc1)
Won't play smooth in any player exept zoombrowser (software becomes with canon camera)

Case 2
Codec clip after export from zoombrowser with export-option H.264:
H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part10) (avc1)
Plays smooth in VLC, Quicktime, but in WMP11 also smooth but like slowmotion very slow.

Bitspeed in both cases 23970 kb/s in VLC

When I drag clip in both Case 1 en 2 in timeline MEP starts conversion using the
"MPEG input module".
Result: litle jerky in, preview and in whatever format I export (see early posts).

Second I tried NOT using the MPEG input module (unchecked the checkbox herefore) and draged the clip to timeline.
After that i could see in object properties that MEP dit use "quicktime import" as converting module to import.
Result: no preview but black screen.

I am still puzzled, but do have a lot more information. ;-)
I think now for shore the MPEG input module is the problem.

Anyone have an idea?

p.s.

SCENESTEALER  I did have all camera software installed but i don't no if Magix use it for importing do you? And I am only want to export not burning the final clip, sorry if I was not clear about that.

JOHNEBAKER,, I have a clip wich I use for testing because it contains a lot of panning it is 15 sec and 45 Mb. Where can i put it or send it to?  

Hi Weibe

Are you absolutely sure all of the frames per secs reported in all the footage , encodes , exports, advanced encoder settings , Movie settings, Media info analysis - say 30fps!

Also you say your camera (model?) is PAL - PAL is never 30fps only multiples of 25fps and this must be reflected in all your settings or you may get added or dropped frames in the final result.

The software for your camera should install drivers and codecs if they are peculiar to that camera.

I mentioned the burn screen option because there are sometimes more presets available there that are not in the File>export menu. You can record an iso image to your harddisc there and find the MTS or MPEG file in one of the folders it creates.

Hi Weibe

Are you absolutely sure all of the frames per secs reported in all the footage , encodes , exports, advanced encoder settings , Movie settings, Media info analysis - say 30fps!

Also you say your camera (model?) is PAL - PAL is never 30fps only multiples of 25fps and this must be reflected in all your settings or you may get added or dropped frames in the final result.

The software for your camera should install drivers and codecs if they are peculiar to that camera.

I mentioned the burn screen option because there are sometimes more presets available there that are not in the File>export menu. You can record an iso image to your harddisc there and find the MTS or MPEG file in one of the folders it creates.

Thank a lot,
 

Camera model is the Canon 200sx wich can shoot excelent film far better then my slightly older sony video cam dcr sr 190. The auto image stablitity works much better. 
 

I am confused what you said about PAL and that it never can be 30 fps, because in camera settings I can choose between: 

PAL: 1280x720 or 640x480 or 320x240 all in the same 30 fps. I can't change the fps on camera.

or

NTSC: 1280x720 or 640x480 or 320x240 all in the same 30 fps. I can't change the fps on camera.

And did follow your advice and checked again what the framerate is before and after export and before and after import in MEP, and additional I have exported in the burn screen a iso image on PC.
In all occasions 30 fps is what I found.
 

BUT when I looked after importing by dragging to timeline, under object properties (right click on clip)
Object play time: 00h 00min 15s 21 frames and futhermore Framerate: 30 fps and MPEG import module.
The 15 seconds is correct but shouldn't the frames be, 15s x 30fps = 450 frames?

I have installed camera drivers and software else i wasn't been able to export the clip using camera software (zoombrowser).  Clips right from the camera are even harder to play in whatever player except in the camera's own player that becomes with it (player within zoombrowser).

After this i think youre right about framerate isue, because what else can cause jerky film. Leaves the question how to solve it?
 

Is there away that I can force MEP to use the codec from Canon? Because it don't show up on the system subscreen where all the other codecs are and where you can uncheck or check them. Earlier I have tried  to uncheck MPEG module but then MEP used Quichtime to import with only blackscreen result. And there is nothing else listed here what refers to a Canon codec.

 Wiebe

Hi Wiebe

I have had a look at the specs on the powershot range and here in maybe the answer. Where the spec says 30 fps there is an asterisk saying that it is in fact 29.97fps which explains the extra frames in excess of your maths.

It appears the camera output is the same in different regions and manual says " analogue output PAL/NTSC " but 29.97 is in fact the actual video rate in NTSC countries and is designed so that 24fps films can be shown on US TVs without adding or dropping too many fields or frames (see Telecine in the Wikipedia).

So try using an NTSC 29.97 preset in your movie and export settings. I am not sure it will ever look  smooth on a PAL TV system unless you play it back out of the camera via an analogue connection wherein there maybe some conversion going on although I think modern flat panels just lockup to whatever the frequency is that is input. Computer playback should be fine though.

Hi Wiebe

I have had a look at the specs on the powershot range and here in maybe the answer. Where the spec says 30 fps there is an asterisk saying that it is in fact 29.97fps which explains the extra frames in excess of your maths.

It appears the camera output is the same in different regions and manual says " analogue output PAL/NTSC " but 29.97 is in fact the actual video rate in NTSC countries and is designed so that 24fps films can be shown on US TVs without adding or dropping too many fields or frames (see Telecine in the Wikipedia).

So try using an NTSC 29.97 preset in your movie and export settings. I am not sure it will ever look  smooth on a PAL TV system unless you play it back out of the camera via an analogue connection wherein there maybe some conversion going on although I think modern flat panels just lockup to whatever the frequency is that is input. Computer playback should be fine though.

 

 Thanks again,

 You are right about the fps.
So I tried to import while settings is NTSC 29.97fps than there popups a message box saying that settings don't match with the imported clip which is 30fps. When i ignore this and import the clip and than export the clip in same 29.97fps notting is changed the same jerky output. Preview is jerky as well.
This popup is appearing AFTER conversion by dragging to timeline, so during conversion all stays the same as before.
When i look in object properties => file information in above situation  still the framerate is 30 fps but maybe this is obvious because in my earlier answers I I have investigate on this and for example VLC codec information says that the orginal file is 30fps.
I the same with PAL with manual 29.97 but same result.

Could there be some misreading true MEP?
 

Now i am looking on Canon site and I see that the problem lies within the orginal codec. More people are complaining about  this codec : H264-mpeg4-avc(part10)(avc1) especialy the avc1 part of it
"And that it is hard to edit", what ever that mains ;-)

I tried now almost all possible options, is there something overlooked?
Maybe the MEP MPG module and can't get it right.

Thanks a lot for you help, if you have yet an other option I am pleased to hear but I think this a hard nut to crack.

Wiebe
 

It's a tough one alright, Wiebe.

Please use "Media Info" (free) to check your camera file as it seems the most consistent and informative.

Then try to match all the settings in the Export > advanced MPEG4 video settings > main tab and advanced tab (change Input and Output fps) to match the reported details and desired frame rate. you may have to start off by selecting the "User defined" preset in the Export main window dropdown which you can then save as a preset by clicking the Save icon adjacent to the dropdown. 

"Hard to edit" - I know what they mean having just entered the wonderful world of AVCHD via a Panasonic SD900 that records in 1080p 50fps.

AVC uses what is called Long GOP or Group Of Pictures which means there are 25 or more highly compressed frames, between each full (all be it compressed) frame, all depending on each other to a greater or lesser extent . I think what happens is that, depending where you cut those frames, you lose information for proceeding or following frames so often the cut doesn't fall where you think it does - or it does not display correctly when you scrub the timeline. Consequently you never know if you have a clean cut until you render the movie and find black flashes appear or bits you thought you had cut off are still there. So you recreate the frametable and suddenly the time line starts telescoping shorter or longer and everything goes out of whack and in one case I have ended up with every cut suddenly gaining a half frame gap! Or sync appears to be out on the preview until you recreate the frametable, and so on.....

So yes "Fun Fun Fun until daddy takes the TBird away..."

Apparently the 2nd generation of Intel I7's released early this year have something built into the chip that optimises AVCHD encoding/decoding so we will have to see if this helps.

Re your question about forcing the use of a particular codec - there is a free tool called Codec Tweak Tool which lists codecs then allows you to set a preference (or Merit Value) but I have little experience with it at this stage.

Sorry but I am a bit stumped as to where you go from there.

Best of luck

Stealer

It's a tough one alright, Wiebe.

Please use "Media Info" (free) to check your camera file as it seems the most consistent and informative.

Then try to match all the settings in the Export > advanced MPEG4 video settings > main tab and advanced tab (change Input and Output fps) to match the reported details and desired frame rate. you may have to start off by selecting the "User defined" preset in the Export main window dropdown which you can then save as a preset by clicking the Save icon adjacent to the dropdown. 

"Hard to edit" - I know what they mean having just entered the wonderful world of AVCHD via a Panasonic SD900 that records in 1080p 50fps.

AVC uses what is called Long GOP or Group Of Pictures which means there are 25 or more highly compressed frames, between each full (all be it compressed) frame, all depending on each other to a greater or lesser extent . I think what happens is that, depending where you cut those frames, you lose information for proceeding or following frames so often the cut doesn't fall where you think it does - or it does not display correctly when you scrub the timeline. Consequently you never know if you have a clean cut until you render the movie and find black flashes appear or bits you thought you had cut off are still there. So you recreate the frametable and suddenly the time line starts telescoping shorter or longer and everything goes out of whack and in one case I have ended up with every cut suddenly gaining a half frame gap! Or sync appears to be out on the preview until you recreate the frametable, and so on.....

So yes "Fun Fun Fun until daddy takes the TBird away..."

Apparently the 2nd generation of Intel I7's released early this year have something built into the chip that optimises AVCHD encoding/decoding so we will have to see if this helps.

Re your question about forcing the use of a particular codec - there is a free tool called Codec Tweak Tool which lists codecs then allows you to set a preference (or Merit Value) but I have little experience with it at this stage.

Sorry but I am a bit stumped as to where you go from there.

Best of luck

Stealer

 

 

 

Thank you very much! for your time, it was very helpfull!

Even i didn't solve the problem yet, i learned a lot of your posts.
I am consistent to solve the problem and when i have, i will come back here to post the solution.
I am planning to install Magix on an other system  and see what is happening.

Wiebe, thanks again.

 

Problem solved !!!!!!
Finally i have found a solution and the course of the problem of my jerky video.

The problem is the CODEC of the source video, Mediainfo reports it as QT (quicktime).
So i thought i buy a MAC with Final cut pro and happy after all, but the guy in the Apple store told me that Final cut pro can only export in Quicktime after that you have to convert it if you want some other format.
Later i found on the Apple forums that some users of the new Snow leopard OS are having problems to play Quicktime without  jerky playing on new systems bought this year.
And on top of that, a lot of hardcore Final cut pro users quit using the newest version of Final cut pro because they can't  use projects made in older versions anymore so these are useless.

So now i new that the Quicktime format of my movies was the problem i tried to export the original clips in zoombrowser (becomes with 200sx canon camera) in the AVI format in stead of H.264.
Then drag in Magix these clips in timeline and Magix don't have to convert them and everything is going smooth and i can export them in any format i want.
Without visible quality loss and i am very picky at this.

Both in Zoombrowser export and Magix movie settings and export settings you have to set the FPS to 30 because that's what my camera delivers. (strangly Mediainfo says 30.000030 FPS)
 

Thanks to all for your help! 
 

p.s. Anyone questions or recommendations?