@Jason-Nickoson

Short answer: No. Stick with 16.

@CubeAce, the three versions of VEGAS are Vegas Edit, Vegas Pro, and Vegas Post.

At the beginning of this changeover, Vegas Movie Studio users were offered an upgrade path to Vegas Pro. You might want to contact Sales to see if they might offer you a discount to upgrade to Vegas Pro 20. It won't be as inexpensive as the current Movie Studio deals.

@Reyfox

Hi.

I thought the offered upgrade path from MS if you wanted to keep in the Vegas family was to the cheaper Vegas Edit version. I see I put Movie Edit Pro which is neither one version or the other 😳.

Ray.

@Jason-Nickoson

Hi,

If you want to keep the workflow and UI of VEGAS range, as part of the black week, MAGIX offers the upgrade to VEGAS Edit 20 for $79 (full version).
You can also install the trial version of Movie Studio 2023 and then take your decision before 22 November.

The choice is yours.

DéDé.

@CubeAce no problem! I've been confused more times that not!

@sasiuk but can he upgrade from Vegas Movie Studio? From within VMS 16, the upgrade offer is for MS2023 and no mention of Vegas.

If the upgrade to Vegas Edit is that, it's a great deal!

@Reyfox

I'm not sure if it was a limited offer or not. I have upgraded from old software once in the past.

Upgrade offers on the Magix website either accept the product code asked for or not. If you get accepted you get to continue with an offered upgrade price. I think it possible to cross grade as well. Say from Movie Studio to VPX but you may lose your previous program in the cross grade. If you buy a version outright, you get to keep your old program as well even if the two can't exist on the same system. If you upgrade or cross-grade, then a previous version you owned or cross-graded from is removed from your registered products.

Of course the downside then is you are then on a higher tier of pricing for future upgrades. I think that is why they accept them. You also have to check carefully that your new program will run on the hardware you have, remembering their claims of being able to run on lower end systems is OK if you don't edit at higher resolutions or use effects. They only really make claims for the core software and not it's supplied effects bundles IMHO.

Ray.

@Reyfox

Hi,

From within VMS 16, the upgrade offer is for MS2023 and no mention of Vegas.

That's right.

If I open Vegas Movie Studio 16 I have this splash to upgrade to Movie Studio 2023 (Video deluxe for main countries of the European community).

but can he upgrade from Vegas Movie Studio?

I think so.
I simulated buying Vegas Edit 20 update. For me it works.

As all MAGIX licenses are all in P3, I suggest that you try on your side to simulate the purchase of Vegas Edit 20 update with your Movie Studio 2022 or 2023 license.
I'm curious about this simulation.

DéDé.

@Jason-Nickoson, @Reyfox, @CubeAce

Hi

As Jason already has a registered Vegas product, when purchasing the Upgrade, which must be selected first, the system will check for a valid registered product to qualify for the Upgrade price, either by asking for the serial number or the email address and password used to register VMS 16 before proceeding to the payment stage and final purchase.

HTH

John EB

I would have tried "simulating" an upgrade from VMS16 to VP20, but I do have several registered Vegas Pro software in my account and would think it would have hit on one of those products.

@CubeAce with the pricing of current Magix software, I don't think they will turn down any offer in upgrading.

Vegas pricing has never been this low. When Vegas Post was introduced, it was $999, upgrading I believe was $699. I can upgrade to Post for $199. Of course this is during the Black Friday sales, but it's a great price.

Just curious as to why when you upgrade, does the previous version get written over.

@Reyfox

Hi.

They have to compete with new products and are not the industry leaders. When they charged $999 they were bigger players in a smaller pool of programs with fewer people doing video. Now everyone has a phone. If they don't follow the pack they risk losing market share which may not keep increasing as fast as in the past few years.

Just curious as to why when you upgrade, does the previous version get written over.

Really Magix would have to answer that one but I can think of a few possible reasons.

For those with less wherewithal they might reduce their C: drive space to a non working one due to a lack of swap file space.

An upgrade means you have exchanged one licence for a new one and effectively given up the right to use the old software. Like a car exchange. If you have bought it rather than upgraded, then the old version is still in your account to go back to. You effectively have two licences.

Why at that point, one is deleted from a system, even if you choose to put the program onto another drive may be down to the dynamic link library possibly becoming corrupted. If one program has older plugins that work in that version but not the other it could cause problems. Of that I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure the same extension names are often reused in the newer versions but may not have the same coding.

If one version is much older than the other, at some point the older one will cease working as the current operating system evolves. We are already seeing this with changes to Direct X and the way text is now handled within Windows. (you may not have notice the latter but it happened recently and caused some programs havoc for short while until Microsoft released a patch.)

Ray.

@Reyfox @CubeAce

Hi,

Just curious as to why when you upgrade, does the previous version get written over.

Magix used to have a new install for each new version. This meant the entire kit of 8-10 GB of content, the stuff that you add once the program is activated. It was all redundant. Now, the only time you have to add the additional content is if something changes. Any personal additions, presets, effects, etc. are not touched, whereas with a new install, you would have to install the 8-10 GB and copy over all of your personal presets and effects, etc. - a major PITA.

Just install the new version over the old one and you're good to go.

John CB

@Jason-Nickoson

Hi,

Is MS 23 still the same terrible interface as they tried in MS 22?

You do realize that we could say the same about Vegas MS. Like, where are the tracks? Where are the Movies? What, only 1 timeline?

Perhaps you would like to explain what is wrong with the layout, other than the 3 windows - Preview Monitor, Timeline, tabbed Media Pool.

or, rearranged to be more like VegasMS

MMS also has Storyboard mode and Scene overview. Storyboard is a new feature in Vegas Pro.

In MMS, a track is a track. You can put what you want on it.

John CB

@browj2, I understand bringing over all your previous settings, but to lose functionality of a past version, especially if there is something wrong with the new one is problematic. You can have a common folder for all the additional (if you decide to get it) "stuff". Like with OFX plugins are in one area.

Do you lose your license from a previous version?

@CubeAce thanks for the explanation. With an upgrade with Vegas and other editing software I have, you can keep your past version(s) installed and never lose the license. I never uninstall a piece of software that I upgrade to until I am happy with the new software. There have been instances where the "new" upgrade is problematic forcing users who upgraded to go back to the previous version until bugs are fixed. With Resolve Studio, which does uninstall the previous version, you can still install a past version that was stable for the user.

If a version is to old to be run on the computer, like any software, it's time to upgrade to something that does work. Win10 has been around a long time. In my account, I still have MEP2015 and 16 listed. I upgraded with those to MS2022.

Maybe they should call it a "trade up".

@Reyfox

Do you lose your license from a previous version?

If I upgrade rather than buy outright then yes. At least I lost my licence for VPX 11 but manged to keep the licence for my copy of VPX 12 which is just as well.
I am not having a great time with VPX 14 on my system. Some functionality has gone missing that I use.

I will give a full report on my experience sometime later today as I want a discussion on this and feedback from other peoples experiences with lower performing systems. I will say that I think for anyone needing an editor that works in real time (for playback) with an Intel 9th gen processor or older to forget it if they don't have a very powerful nvidia card to back that system up with. At least more powerful than my nvidia 1650 Super if they do anything other than basic editing.

I am working on a word document right now.

Ray.

@CubeAce, with Vegas Pro, no loss of license. You get a new, different one with the upgrade. The same with Pinnacle Studio and Videostudio Pro. You can have multiple versions on your computer (which I do) at the same time. When I am happy with the current version, I uninstall others. Different serial numbers. With Resolve Studio, the same serial number is for every Studio version, with the latest being 18.1. I can go back to earlier versions if need be, which hasn't been the case.

I do think with each progressive new version of editing software, there is the need to increase the required hardware specs to reflect the additional "muscle" needed for a smooth editing experience. Yes, all the editors will work with min spec machines if editing 720P. But editing 1080 or 4K, it's a struggle I would not want to experience.

Curious with your computer specs (which seem good for editing), guessing you've tried just using your iGPU? I waited a long time to upgrade my graphics card from the RX480 8GB. The RX500 series didn't offer marketed improvements, the RX5000 series I figure I'd wait for prices to drop. They didn't and went through the stratosphere. Finally the RX 6700XT was at MSRP finally, so I bought it. I have used my "old" RX480 hard for 6 years and didn't want it to just not work when I turn on the computer. Also, after checking a friends RX6600 and seeing I had a 3x rendering speed improvement over the RX480 in Vegas, I bought the 6700XT.

I am good with hardware since I don't plan on upgrading my cameras. If anything, I can drop in an AMD Ryzen 9 5950X CPU, but really don't need to for the incremental boost. I can live with a few minutes waiting for things to happen...

@Reyfox

Hi.

guessing you've tried just using your iGPU?

Trust me, I tried every combination for playback and exporting using the variations between Import, Processing, and Export. Microsoft WARP was the worst option in any configuration. Just one use of it ended in a hard crash of the program and the operating system. I have never suffered anything like it using Win 10.

I have noted that those not having any apparent problems have at least an i10th gen processor and an nvidia 2060. I would speculate that is now the base benchmark for a smooth editing experience. But then again I admit my projects get extreme for the additional use of effects at once over multiple tracks. I would not class myself an average or normal user. If I can't find a viable working solution I will probably role back to using VPX 12. The only thing I will lose is Titler Pro 7 over Titler Pro 6 which I can live with. I'm not interested in the travel maps and the fix for position, zoom, rotation has caused more problems than it resolves. Between working with MEP 2023 and VPX. There is nothing else that is different that I use within VPX that I have been made aware of so far.

Ray.

@Reyfox @CubeAce

Hi,

When Magix introduced the Update Service, the process changed. If you purchased/upgraded to a new version that kicked off the Update Service for you, then you would likely have been able to upgrade to a newer version when it came out using the same activation code. Installing the new version removed the old one. If you didn't renew and had to reinstall, you fell back to the version available when you last paid. If you renewed, even after expiry, all Magix would do is extend the Update Service period by a year and you were free to upgrade to a newer version when available. The activation code never changed, just the date.

The Update Service is no more. Thus, you have to pay for each new version and you get a new activation code and a new entry in your account. You should have separate activation codes and product entries for each of MS/MEP2022 and MS2023, assuming that you stayed with the same flavour - Premium/Suite or Plus/Platinum. Could someone please check?

The installation process removes the old version. However, since you have two (or more) entries in My Products, you can uninstall the latest version and get the previous version and activation code from your account. This should work.

Ray, you purchased VPX11 through Humble Bundle. When you got VPX12, did you renew the Update Service or did you get a new activation code? Check your account. If you have 2 entries and 2 activation codes, you can always remove 12 (and 14) and install 11. I presume that you received a new activation code with VPX14 and a new entry in your account. Thus, you can uninstall 14 and get 12 from your account and use the related activation code.

Confusing?

Ray, you often indicate that you are not interested in Travel Maps. Most users travel and create videos about their travels. Or, there is an event in St-Ephram-de-muk-muk that you made a video of but few viewers know where that might be. A map helps. I have maps in almost every video that I make, even for a walk around the neighbourhood. Do you know what it does and can do? It can be used for animating a line/curve, no need to be a map. See this example:

...the fix for position, zoom, rotation has caused more problems than it resolves.

Remember, it's a relatively new facelift. It has some great new features (movable anchor points, quickly position to an edge or the centre, multiple ways of doing rotations) at the expense of the zoom slider. Yes, there are still a few bugs (what are they?), mostly with legacy presets. Other than that, I find it very useful.

Over the years I have lost very little capability. My very old projects open fine in the newest VPX, but sometimes, rarely, it has trouble finding some old template effect; I can usually locate them.

My biggest beefs right now are:

1. The link with Xara for creating static/animated graphics doesn't work right and hasn't for several years. Most annoying as this is a very powerful feature.
2. When using some third party transitions (Pixelan and Adorage), one (or both) of the clips does not show up in the interface.
3. VPX Project Temp Folder - dragging trimmed clips from the Media Pool to the PTF gives the start as the beginning of the video, not the trimmed location. It can be done from the timeline, but it is supposed to work (it's in the manual) from the Media Pool. This hasn't worked properly for a couple of versions.

John CB

VPX is suppose to be a top editor, the professional editor. And as being such, it shouldn't matter what you toss at it, as long as the hardware you have is also up to the task.

But to have to roll back to VPX12 for any reason isn't good. I am guessing working with the same projects.

I don't upgrade until there is a patch or three released for a product. And download a trial to see how it performs with some of my more difficult projects. Then I'll consider. It isn't the cost, but whether it is really worth it in editing. If anything, I want things to be smoother and better than before.

I shoot a lot of 10bit 422 and that leaves MEP off the table for me since the clips will show up in the Import all nice, but that's about as far as it goes in MEP2022. It would have been nice if it said file format not supported when trying to import. VPX12 has no problems.

@browj2 thanks for the demo of Maps. I also do travel videos and have been meaning to explore Maps. Emphasis on "meaning to". Thanks for reminding me!

@browj2

Hi John

As you have mentioned St-Ephram-de-muk-muk  where is it ? 😟

BTW, don't forget we both have a gripe with Travel Maps - no zoom in/out animation at the end of a route.

I also hate Google Earth 'Tour' feature though (IIRC) @terrypin was a pro at using this.

John EB

@browj2

Hi John.

I checked my Magix account again and it turns out I have not lost the use of any previous version of VPX but only of MEP 2020.

All Humble Bundle activations went as new purchases. My preference would be to re-install VPX 12 if I can't get 14 to work reasonably well. VPX 12 still has surround sound export capabilities and can use PSD files. It also imports and plays AAC ADTS sound files. Curious but thankful as that is the soundtrack audio files that my camera produces when using slow motion. Magix said it wouldn't do that when I asked, but it does. Zoom rotation between the two programs I find are easy to fix. Your personal 'beefs' are things I have never had to contemplate using for myself but the first one seems to be working OK in VPX 12. I don't own anything from Pixelan or Adorage and I have never used an old clip in a new project,,, yet.

Although I do place MEP projects into VPX for further tweaking when I sometimes need to, as soon as I import it I save it with a new project name with a VPX suffix, never to be opened by MEP again. Normally I have no need to go back to the MEP version but If I do I simply change individual files giving them file names that already exist in the projects and swap them out taking care to be of the same length. For new inserts I simply add them to both projects. If needed I can add a frame counter track for accuracy. I was used to working with edge numbers from film days and 35mm stock.

Travel Maps.

It became very popular and still is in the film industry to cut costs of actually filming such travel and is a faster way of representing what could otherwise be tedious footage. That idea was first used by the military I believe. It amuses me to see it in enthusiasts videos. Not that I see it much unless it as about a sponsored event such a bike journey for charity. People can see where I walk in my videos and YouTube can put a map reference into the footage or can take it from geo-tags in camera footage should one have it switched on, along with the appropriate dates if needed.

It's a preference thing and as I can't do it as well as the movies can and most of my stuff is quite local, I tend not to use it. It's not like the UK is huge or anything. It is really difficult to get lost here for any length of time. 😉 Well, at least not since I was ten.

Ray.