Jeff,

Thanks for this. You're correct in your assumptions of my field operations and editing of the raw tracks. And I always merge stereo mic arrays into a single stereo wave file to cut down on the number of tracks I'm editing, which Samplitude does perfectly. I do need to point out a few things (and maybe get schooled, too). Please hear all of this as said cheerfully, OK? That doesn't always come across.

This board is under Forum - Audio - Samplitude. If this isn't the place to post these types of questions, why is it here? I mean, is this for tech support only? And I understand that it might be.

Also, have you seen the video from the Samplitude Pro X4 Suite page?

https://www.magix.com/us/music/samplitude/pro-x/new-features/#c1034499

It gives a hint about Interleaved Recording, but it's a tiny video. It appears that what I'm asking about is real, but it might work only when recording directly to the laptop. I don't record to the laptop simply because a good friend and colleague of mine used Sequoia for this instead of actual field recorders, and it refused to work when he was about to record a very large (and high-paying) orchestral concert. It wasn't Sequoia's fault - it was a problem with the recording interface in front of the laptop. But the results were the same - no audio.

TIA!

Hi again, and many thanks for the details you give. BTW absolutely no offense taken by what you write. 😀

However, there are one or two matters in your post, which do need commenting upon, sorry!

This board is under Forum - Audio - Samplitude

Quite correct, but what you are asking about is really quite a "technical" area (also remembering that Samplitude exists in various versions and levels of facilities) and, as a moderator, I always think it best to redirect any post to a more "suitable" area of expertise; in your case, the Samplitude forum I linked has many "experts" who are using this professional software on a regular, perhaps daily, basis and so could offer you much more potentially useful assistance. The forum we are now in is for user-to-user support and guidance but very few Samplitude Pro users seem to post here, IMO, quite understandably.

I always merge stereo mic arrays into a single stereo wave file to cut down on the number of tracks I'm editing, which Samplitude does perfectly

If I may say so, this is really quite an "unusual" way of working! I can appreciate why you would do this but the resulting single stereo file offers you no chance to subsequently alter the relative levels of the individual stereo tracks, nor to "edit" them in any way. Yes, you can alter the overall level of this single file (thank you for the direction to the video and what it shows about fades etc.) but a rather more usual situation with a multitrack recording is that the engineer is likely to need to alter the level of e.g. one of your stereo pairs without directly affecting the others.

The Samplitude Interleaved Recording feature does appear to be applicable only to recordings directly to the software and host computer but, assuming your field recorder can output the 16 tracks individually and you have a suitable external (to the computer) audio interface you could "record" into the computer whilst "playing back" from the field recorder, using the Interleaved Recording to store the file. But again, it seems from the video that, although you can see 5 separate waveforms (= 5 "tracks") it is wholly unclear whether those tracks can ever be separated again should you wish to make an adjustment to one ore more of them.

BTW, I do understand why you would not wish to make one of your recordings direct to laptop/computer - the risk of "failure" can be considerable, especially if the performance to be recorded is a "one-off", never to be repeated!

Jeff

Jeff,

Understood, and appreciated.

About merging stereo mic arrays - I didn't do a good job explaining this. If I have an X/Y or Blumlein pair over the conductor's head, that gets tracked to CH1 and CH2, then combined into a single stereo pair after I import the wave files. I'd want anything done to one side to be done to the other - EQ, compression, etc. If the levels don't quite match, the Pan function works perfectly on that stereo file sitting in that single slot. Same goes for the omnis in the back of the hall for ambience, a pair for spots on the organ chambers (if they're split, and some aren't), stereo spots on the choir, etc. If I have spots up for soloists, or for helping out the harp or whatever else needs a little extra, those are obviously single tracks and stay that way in the VIP, panned accordingly. That can get me down from 16 tracks to maybe 12. Still a lot to wrangle, but every individual stereo pair that gets combined makes things that much easier. And I usually only use 7-8 tracks to begin with, but some gigs just need more than 8 tracks.

I use Tascam HS-P82 recorders. You hit Record, and whatever tracks are armed *will* record. Sure they're computers, but they don't do email, browse the web, get hit by viruses, etc. It's a purpose-driven computer controlled recorder that does only one thing, and everyone I know has had some kind of problem recording to their laptop at one time or another. This does add to the post time, but I always get the audio. Heck, I used to drag around a custom, hot-rodded Alesis HD-24XR and two D.A.V. Electronics BG-8 preamps. Stellar sound, but heavy and it was a real pain to get the audio off the drives in a hurry. FireWire has gone away, although I still have laptops with FW ports from back when it was king.

Hope all of that made sense...

Hi again.

Yes, all that makes perfect sense (and those Tascam recorders look very nice!) I assume you use two of them (to give the 16 tracks) presumably synced via the SMPTE Timecode ins and outs?

How, exactly, do you transfer the audio files from the CF cards to Samplitude, copy them to your computer hard drive?

Re-reading your original post I think I now understand your problem really is more to do with the technicalities and demands of "mixing" (manipulating your 16 source tracks) than anything else. Is that correct? If so, I wonder whether you use any sort of hardware mixer connected to your computer, or whether something like that, which allows for real hands-on manipulation by the user, might make life easier for you? I certainly don't think the Samplitude Interleaved Recording feature will offer you any benefits at all, for the reasons I outlined in my previous post!

Jeff

I sync the Tascams with both TC and WC. TC is set to 00:00:00:00 for the start of the gig which brings the files from the two recorders in at the same horizontal place in the VIP (and right at the start of the VIP, not down the line somewhere), and WC for sample-accurate sync. I just pull the CF cards and copy/paste the files into the project folder. Open up Samplitude, create a project and press W to start importing them.

If it's live, the editing is no big deal. There's really nothing much to do, apart from taking out the five minute pre-roll, an intermission if there is one, and the fade out during the applause. But if this is a "studio in the church" kind of thing, it usually turns into an assembly edit project. If I have the stereo pairs combined and it's a smaller job, I may still have 5-6 tracks of raw audio that I start with. It's a "Take 3 up to measure 12, Take 2 up to measure 42, etc." kind of thing, so I end up with twice as many tracks in the VIP as I make the edits, since I leave the raw tracks completely alone. I just copy from them at the appropriate place and paste it into the editing tracks in the VIP and adjust the edit to be inaudible. Once the conductor/choirmaster is happy with the edits, I save the project with another name and delete the raw audio tracks from the new project file. At that point I mix and eventually master. But that's a boatload of stuff to have on the screen as I edit. Grouping helps a ton, but having a single virtual stereo track that represents all the actual tracks for editing would just be heaven. I was hoping that's what the Interleaved Recording feature would be, and it appears that it is - but maybe only for audio recorded right to the computer, not the way I do it.

Again, I hope all of that made sense. And my assembly edit method is exactly how a number of engineers I know pull off this kind of thing. We'd all love a feature like this.

Hi again.

Thanks for that very detailed explanation of your workflow.

My suspicion/personal experience is that there is no method which would allow you to "short-circuit" that process without the danger, early in the whole process, of accidentally baking-in some "sound" which you eventually decide is not wanted! The mix-down/editing/balancing etc., etc. of the raw audio files to create the final stereo master is indeed time-consuming and not without its potential pain (e.g. when you realise that something you did earlier now needs to be re-done because it just "doesn't work").

I think you are right that the Interleaved Recording must be created/initially recorded direct to the computer but I wonder whether there is any method by which, with your 16 tracks loaded into Samplitude, you could "create" your interleaved file by having Samp. "re-record" those tracks to a new interleaved track? Theoretically, this may be possible but, in practice...???

Jeff

Well, I've thought of mixing first - levels, compression, EQ, etc. - and then bouncing the mixes into single stereo takes for editing. But I usually have a "Can you bring the soloist up just a tad?" kind of request, and it's obviously too late to fix if go that route. Any my customers know that about anything can be adjusted/tweaked, so they're not shy about asking. And my mentor taught me to never give a package price - it's all charged by the hour, including setup and the load-out. If I'm at the location, the clock is running unless we break for dinner.

So, my way around it is to use a second monitor on my laptop - a BIG monitor - and I have it flipped vertically. I can get even 32 tracks visible that way. I run the mixer on the laptop's internal screen. Once I get the editing finished, down comes the external monitor and we mix/master.

I guess I'll skip the X4 upgrade. With all the revs and plugs that are native to Samplitude, plus the Waves bundle I have, I'm already in good shape. I only use a select few comps and revs, but when you need 'em, you need 'em.

Thanks for all your input on this - I do appreciate it. And FWIW, I started with Samplitude way back at version 5 when SEK'D had it. Wow, that was a long time ago. Blank CDs cost a dollar each!

Grouping helps a ton, but having a single virtual stereo track that represents all the actual tracks for editing would just be heaven. I was hoping that's what the Interleaved Recording feature would be, and it appears that it is - but maybe only for audio recorded right to the computer, not the way I do it.

Hi,

Have you tried using a submix bus? All of the selected tracks go to the submix bus and you work with that track. The others are there if you need to go back and tweak something. Here is a tutorial by Kraznet about this.

For studio type recording, I would suggest recording directly into Samplitude and using the Takes Manager. Makes life much easier. I've only done this once and only with a single track; 25 takes and I used pieces of 3 of them to get what I wanted.

As for X4, I suggest that you follow the comments on the other site (I see that you joined there). I upgraded to X3 Suite too quickly and got SoundForge with it that I really didn't need. Later, Magix came out with another offering, same discounted price, but with SpectraLayers, which I really would have liked to have. This time, I'll wait to see if there is a better offer later and most of the bugs have been fixed. If not, I'll skip this one.

John CB

Sorry for the late reply - busy with other stuff.

Interesting thought. I'll play around with this. Thanks!