The confusing naming of Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab is simply just for brand recognition, but technically it is based on Samplitude.

+11

Moderator moved post to the ACL users community.

Thanks for the response!

I feel real ignorant about now. However, no matter what I do, I do NOT see the word "audio" anywhere! The thing I did notice was after loading the "file", on the top line where the entire file is shown in its small size, appears to be a single mono data file. When I open the same file in the true Sound forge 7.0 program, (where it was created and saved) it appears normally as a stereo (2 channel) file). Is there something in the file format which the "Samplitude" program doesn't recognize? Everything was created and saved as MP3. I am loath to have to re-record everything with Audio Cleaning Lab, just to be able to clean it up.

I'm not sure if this will be posted back in the ACL users community.

@Gerald-Shantz Simply right click on the audio file at the top. That is what I was describing.

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

Look at the image below:

The top shows the overview so that you know where you are along the arranger/timeline. If you have zoomed in on the timeline, you can quickly move along by clicking where you want to move to or dragging with the mouse to change the zoom factor and location along the timeline.

At the left of track 1, you have volume and pan.

I put a volume curve on the track - the yellow line. You can automate this (keyframes).

Below, under Mastering, select Stereo Enhancer. You have a choice to adjust the Project or just the selected object. Review the presets. Near the bottom right you can adjust the volume of L & R channels separately and you can pan. When you play back, you'll see the result in the graph at the upper right of the Stereo Enhancer.

John CB

Thanks to both browj2 and johnebaker for your help. I'm finding this program non-intuitive unlike the old original. I can see how it has much potential, but it is like so many things in life. If you don't know how, it is a mystery; but if you know, it is simple! I guess this is why I was so disappointed at not being able to make my old Sound Forge noise reduction add-on work. It's going to take this old dog (81) some weeks of learning all over again. One thing I found useful which is new to me, is being able to change the speed without changing the pitch. I needed to speed up a few songs that were painfully slow. With this method of switching between original and added effect, I never know for sure if and when that change has been permanently changed. I was disappointed that when I told the installation program to put the entire system on another drive, it still just put it on C: which as an SSD, doesn't have much room. I'll keep working on it, but may need a few more questions answered. Your using graphic files is a winner.

Oh to be young again! 🙂

Gerald

After much trial and error, trying /redoing, I've found this to be the most unfriendly software I've ever used. Since my old Sound Forge 7.0 still works, (just not the noise reduction add-on) I thought maybe I could do most of my work in it and then just reload the file into ACL for the noise reduction. Well, that's when I realized just HOW clunky the ACL program is! Why in the world didn't the software engineers just build on a solid foundation to update it? I feel like I'm trying t learn "new math" or something.

I still haven't figured out how to just use my mouse to select anything and everything I need. When I find a section that needs to be muted, I just drag my mouse over the exact area and either click on "mute", or "del". Of all the things I've looked for an answer in the instructions, it has yet to provide a single answer. Very poorly written. The problem with coming back here for answers, is the time lag.

Since this version of ACL, is only $35, is there anything available that is more user friendly? My thought was that since John made the comment "Note I am using Video Sound Cleaning Lab, ACL is identical." it made me think that a more expensive version may not help. The time I've spent struggling with this, I could have done 20 times more work in the old software if there was just any way to get the "working code." Very disappointing! 😞

I'm open to any suggestions, and thanks for your help,

Gerald

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

Audio Cleaning Lab is a totally different product from Sound Forge. Magix added the prefix Sound Forge several years ago to be able to put audio editing programs under the same heading, I guess. I have been using it since 2005. The actual Sound Forge programs - Pro and Audio Studio were purchased from Sony along with Vegas.

ACL is actually very simple to use. I find SF Pro and AS difficult, but that is because ACL works like all other Magix products with the exception of those that came from Sony and I am used to using Magix' products like the video editors, Music Maker and Samplitude Pro X.

Make sure that you are in Edit Mouse mode, top menu, Options, or shortcut V.

There is not a lot to select - only objects on the timeline.

Each object has a white horizontal line with a handle in the middle - that is the object volume control. For automation - keyframing audio - turn on the track Volume curve - Volume at the very right of the screen near the top. This will put a yellow line on the track. You can place points (keyframes) on the yellow line and drag them up and down to change the volume along the timeline.

To cut out a part, you put the playback marker where you want to split the object, click on the scissors (T). You now have 2 objects. To delete an object, select it with the mouse, Delete or the big X in the mid left toolbar. To delete whatever is at the left of the playback marker for an object only, use the shortcut Z; for the right part, shortcut U. These are available under the top menu, Edit. I suggest that you look at all menu items, all buttons, and right-click wherever you go to see what is on the context right-click menu.

To mute, but keep, a part, just put a cut on either side and drag the volume handle to the bottom.

Dragging your mouse along the time bar creates a range. Changing to Range mode (top menu, Options) will create a range when you drag along the timeline or on an object. The range is basically there for looping, not trimming, and for applying FX to just a range. I don't recommend doing the latter as I have not found a way to remove range effects.

You can apply effects to the Project or by object, or both under Cleaning and Mastering.

I presume that you found how to open other effects, like iZotope Voice De-noise. Correct?

Anything else specific, just ask.

John CB

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

Audio Cleaning Lab is a totally different product from Sound Forge. Magix added the prefix Sound Forge several years ago to be able to put audio editing programs under the same heading, I guess. I have been using it since 2005. The actual Sound Forge programs - Pro and Audio Studio were purchased from Sony along with Vegas.

ACL is actually very simple to use. I find SF Pro and AS difficult, but that is because ACL works like all other Magix products with the exception of those that came from Sony and I am used to using Magix' products like the video editors, Music Maker and Samplitude Pro X.

Make sure that you are in Edit Mouse mode, top menu, Options, or shortcut V.

There is not a lot to select - only objects on the timeline.

Each object has a white horizontal line with a handle in the middle - that is the object volume control. For automation - keyframing audio - turn on the track Volume curve - Volume at

Not for me! The line is there, but no handle. What you see in that "box" (in the graphic) is just pure noise, so I didn't see any need for the "keyframing tool". I kept struggling with every combination of markers, and finally got a small handle with which I could delete the left channel section, but could not get the same for the right channel. Why in the world can't they figure out how to just click on the left of the object and drag the mouse as far to the right as I want? That would then highlight what I want deleted and hit "delete"! I've tried the "X" and the scissor keys and nearly every thing I do deletes the entire right channel. 😬

the very right of the screen near the top. This will put a yellow line on the track. You can place points (keyframes) on the yellow line and drag them up and down to change the volume along the timeline.

To cut out a part, you put the playback marker where you want to split the object, click on the scissors (T). You now have 2 objects. To delete an object, select it with the mouse, Delete or the big X in the mid left toolbar. To delete whatever is at the left of the playback marker for an object only, use the shortcut Z;

This didn't work for me either. No matter where I tried to place my mouse marker, it always insisted on including a 2nd marker. When I tried to then use the scissors or "X" tool, it would delete the entire right track. What I'm trying to do is just so simple, it drives me crazy at the complexity of this program. Now if I was having trouble with the noise reduction, I wouldn't feel bad. But that's the easy part. Using the mouse is what's unnecessarily difficult.

for the right part, shortcut U. These are available under the top menu, Edit. I suggest that you look at all menu items, all buttons, and right-click wherever you go to see what is on the context right-click menu.

To mute, but keep, a part, just put a cut on either side and drag the volume handle to the bottom.

Just put a cut on either side! What joke. When I put a marker somewhere, I expect it to be there for a purpose! For me, anytime I put a marker somewhere, then no matter what else I do , the markers all move somewhere else! I've printed out your instructions and have been following them the very best of my ability, But now I'm losing confidence in anything I do. And I do keep making reference to the "instructions" also. I've used some pretty complicate software programs before but this is like trying to learn Chinese.

I'm not trying to through off on you, as I really appreciate what help you've given me. I just don't seem able to make what you say to work for me. Surely there isn't any conflict because of my using this software on a Win 7, is there. Any time I try to load a file, I get error messages that it couldn't save some noise file or other, but didn't think that would be a big issue.

I'm starting to wonder if it would be easier hire somebody to decrypt the old Sound Forge Noise Reduction program, just to find a way to get the security code to display. (Just joking.)

I've spent all evening and night on just one file just trying to do a 30 second task. I'm pooped!

Sorry to vent,

Gerald

Dragging your mouse along the time bar creates a range. Changing to Range mode (top menu, Options) will create a range when you drag along the timeline or on an object. The range is basically there for looping, not trimming, and for applying FX to just a range. I don't recommend doing the latter as I have not found a way to remove range effects.

You can apply effects to the Project or by object, or both under Cleaning and Mastering.

I presume that you found how to open other effects, like iZotope Voice De-noise. Correct?

Anything else specific, just ask.

John CB

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi

. . . . Not for me! The line is there, but no handle. . . . .

Did you select the audio object? See the video clip I posted above on splitting the audio channels, you can see the handle appear 9 secs into the clip.

. . . . No matter where I tried to place my mouse marker, it always insisted on including a 2nd marker. When I tried to then use the scissors or "X" tool, it would delete the entire right track. . . . .

I suspect you are dragging the timeline cursor in which case green range markers [ ] are added, this is automatic. See video clip below, I also included how to move split channels individually, by default they will be locked together if the indicated option is not set.

To position the cursor a single left click only is needed. To set the timeline cursor hover the mouse over where the first cut is to be, left click and and make the cut, repeat for the second cut.

Note: if you are working on a laptop, and it has a small screen, less than 17" and/or it is 4K then some of the 'handles' may be too small to see clearly. You can try plugging in a larger monitor or a smart TV to give you a bigger screen.

HTH

John EB

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

Surely there isn't any conflict because of my using this software on a Win 7, is there.

Ouch! Well, you got it working but how well it works on Win 7, only will know. The minimum is W10, as are all of Magix' current programs.

When you say "marker," I presume that you mean playback marker and not a marker with a number on it. Two very different things.

John EB's video should help you greatly.

John CB

When you say "marker," I presume that you mean playback marker and not a marker with a number on it. Two very different things.

Yes. That's correct. I usually have to change the marker with a number and name. The program assumes I'm still on the same "project" unless I tell it I am on a new one.

Usually when I try to install a program that isn't compatible with win 7, it will either just roll over on me or else throw up a big flag warning. ACL never missed a beat.

Thanks again,

Gerald

John, feel bad that my previous post had a boo boo. I had an image to upload, and forgot to include it, so clicked on "edit" and tried to send. From all that I could tell it went, but I see that you never got it so will try to send it again. It may or may not help but it shows with red circles some of the questions you had, and the state that I was in when I inquired.

I haven't had as much time to work on this the last few days as it's been my wife's birthday, and I have to drive her everywhere for parties and doctor's appointments. She has dementia and needs lots of care.

I'll keep trying and try to follow your instructions to the letter. Although I thought I had.

Thanks again for your patience,

Gerald

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi Gerald

No problem with losing a picture upload, many of us here have had that at some time or other.

We await your results - no hurry.

John EB

Well I did a little bit better, in as much as discovering that when selecting a section to delete, I forgot to click the scissors for both beginning and end of selection. However, that didn't do squat for selecting both tracks. I found it be so annoying, I just gave up and did my end trimming in Sound Forge 7, after all the noise removal and brightening up. What I found when trying to clean a bad noise entrance to a file (or end) it refuses to allow me to select both channels at the same time. I should probably show you a jpeg of my SF 7 for this purpose. Unless you have already been familiar with it. I'm immensely disappointed in the software. I guess it will be worth it just for the noise reduction. I got that SF 7.0 on sale for over $200 at least 15 years ago and feel I have gotten my money's worth out of it. I'll keep looking for a better noise reduction program some where

This file is the smallest I've sent and it when I confirm to send, it briefly shows the image fine, but then replaces it with these error icons. Sorry. Gerald

After sending the message, I tried to edit it, and then tried once more, and looks good for now. ???

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi Gerald

. . . . that didn't do squat for selecting both tracks . . . .

Assuming this is when the channels have been seperated, then to cut or do any other operations/effects on both tracks simultaneously, you have to select both tracks.

Select one track, then, while holding down the Ctrl key select the other track.

HTH

John EB

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

I think that you are making things too complicated for yourself and you're trying to overthink things. SFACL is really a very simple program to use.

First, I don't see the need to split left and right onto separate tracks to independently adjust the volume of the left or right channel. Just click on the Stereo button to see both channels on 1 track. If you need to reduce the volume of the left or right channel separately, select the Object, if you have more than 1 file imported, select Object instead of Project (use Project if only 1 audio file), Mastering, Stereo Enhancer, and adjust the left or right channel as shown in the image that I posted before or as shown below for a single object. There is only 1 object on track 1 showing the stereo channels. Simple but powerful. The only drawback is that this method does not adjust the height of the waveform.

Now to trim the object, you only have the one object to contend with. As John EB showed, select the object, place the playback marker where you want to split, T or the scissors. Move the playback marker to where you want the next split, T. Select the part to be deleted. Delete.

The big thing is that if you see the full audio object on the track, like in the image above, how are you going to be precise by dragging a range and then deleting or even by just placing the playback marker by eye? You can't.

In the image above, I can't even place my playback marker by eye precisely where I would want to trim. I have to zoom in, a lot.

So, place the playback marker about where you want to cut, zoom in (Ctrl+mouse wheel) on the arranger. Now you can see the volume curve in detail. Place the playback marker where you want to cut. To nudge the playback marker, use the left and right arrow keys on your keyboard. T. Zoom out or use Overview Track at the top of the screen to create a zoom range, assuming that you have it turned on. Zoom in more if necessary, go to precisely where you to trim, and T. Zoom out, select object to be deleted, Delete.

With this method of switching between original and added effect, I never know for sure if and when that change has been permanently changed.

SFACL is a non-destructive editor. Changes within the project are not permanent. The result is in the exported file. I do not recommend overwriting the source file, so use a different name and/or location.

Like every audio editing program, you can bypass effects, individually (in the VST interface) or globally (FX Bypass at the bottom of the upper right hand button bar).

Noise Reduction

What are you using for this? The built-in DeNoiser or a third party VST like iZotope Voice De-noise. There are others.

iZotope Repair Assistant

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . Move the playback marker to where you want the next split . . . .

Can you clarify this please. My interpretation would be to drag the playback marker, which in VSCL creates a range as I showed in my example here at the 48 sec mark and is seen in Gerald's image here?

I only have VSCL to demo with, AFAICS from the ACL4 manual there is very little difference on operations.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

My interpretation would be to drag the playback marker, which in VSCL creates a range... 

Yes, dragging creates a range, but when there is a range, you can't split or trim, you have to click on the playback marker or move it to get right of the range. One of the drawbacks.

When you create a range in SFACL, the range button at the right of the transport control turns on. If you turn it off to be able to split or trim, the playback marker goes back to the beginning of the range.

RANGE MODE

However, and for @Gerald-Shantz, sorry about this, but I completely forgot about Range mode because I never use it. Under Options, switch to Range mode. First, click on the clip. Now, place the playback marker where you want the range to start, drag to create the range. Now Delete (or the big X) will delete the range part and close up the gap (whether or not Ripple mode is selected, it seems). Or, clicking on the scissors or T will split the object at both the beginning and the end of the range.

So, this should take care of your trimming problem.

Don't forget to switch back to "Edit mouse mode" for normal operation.

John EB, Does your version of VSCL have VST capability? Mine did not and I complained to Magix that this was not an upgrade of Music Editor for the video editing programs. They offered my money back. I told them that they should remove this program from their site and not sell it, for obvious reasons.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . Does your version of VSCL have VST capability? . . . .

Not that I can see, it is version 22 from 2015/2016 (?), IIRC VST support came in 2019 (I could be wrong) .

Added:

. . . . RANGE MODE . . . .

The option to select this mode is not available in VSCL it is for playback looping only.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

I don't have any VSCL installed, so I can't tell which versions I had. I see that I first purchased VSCL in 2011. I checked the manual and it had VST capability with 10 search results for VST. I also checked the manual for MEP 17 Plus, which I purchased in January 2011, and it had VST capability. I don't have the Music Editor manual that came with it. I'm quite sure that Music Editor also also had VST capability at the time.

I purchased the upgrade VSCL in 2014 and looking at the manual, it only has 2 search results for VST. The second result indicates that VST can be added to the path, but that is all.

I found that ticket that I raised about VSCL (2014) being a downgrade from the previous version. My main point was that they had removed the Spectral Cleaner. It was in the previous VSCL. I also noted that Magix had removed the detailed parameter tools from all of the effects functions, which was essentially a dumbing-down of the program. So one could not use the VST effects, even if available.

@Gerald-Shantz

Hi,

I'm glad that you raised this question as I have learned about the Range mode. I see that one can start a range, move the view to another area for the end of the range, zoom way in, move the mouse to about where the end of the range should be, right-click and select "Set end area." The ends can be fine-tuned by dragging. Also, the range can be slid back and forth by dragging it in the time bar above track 1. Wonderful!

John CB

@browj2

Hi

. . . . VSCL in 2014 and looking at the manual, it only has 2 search results for VST . . . .

The version I have is the same, no option to add a VST path, and no Spectral Cleaner.

I think we have the same version - it did not change much for many years.

John EB