How to HDR workflow

Balcerek wrote on 11/10/2022, 6:13 AM

Hello all !

I want to have workflow like this:
1) load my slog footage from sony camera (xavc 4K, 8-bit). (Yeah, I heard HDR looks better when we use 10bit footage, but from my expirience better looks 8-bit HDR even with small banding that very nice SDR. So I thing it should have no matter for the program. It's only my choice. Artist's choice.)
2) change log to "normal" look - here I supose I should use LUT in VPX ?
3) push some extra HDR lights to footage e.g., a Sun with some clouds, reflections etc.

I upgraded my old MEP2015 to VPX 14, because I wanted try to make some HDR video.
On Magix's WWW we can read that it supports HDR10, but I can't find even basic tools for that. There are just 2 options in the program settings menu which could have something to common with this:
True-to-color conversion for non-HDR monitors
Output with monitors with high bit depth

and possibly:
color space (Bt.2020) in movie settings.

I have a problem with p.3 of workflow:
1) How to poperly switch HDR on ?
2) How to edit HDR with wave monitor ? It only shows scale 0-100 nit (?) or 0-255 value. When we work with HDR, in my opinion it shoud show 0-1000 nit (0-1024 - 10 bit) value. How can we set brighness properly without this ? How properly work with HDR timeline ?

Does anybody have expirience in this ?
I thing VPX 14 is very weak in HDR, but maybe I missed something...

Comments

CubeAce wrote on 11/10/2022, 6:53 AM

@Balcerek

Hi, and welcome to the user to user forums.

No, not personally as I don't have a 10 bit monitor.

Have you set your nvidia graphics card settings or whatever to handle and produce a 10 bit output?

In the nvidia control panel as far as I understand it it goes.

Right click on the Windows desktop

Open the NVIDA control panel

On the left side, click on Resolutions

click on the Output Colour Format drop-down menu and select YUV422

Click on Apply

Now click on the Output Color Depth drop-down menu and select 10bpc (bits per color)

If using an Intel GPU then the Intel Graphics and Command Center may be the way to go to set up HDR in Windows or use the Windows Colour settings.

Then if you are using an HDR monitor (I assume you are) then you may see a difference. I can't verify that but that is it as far as I understand the setup procedure.

YUV422 should give you a good HDR range at 8bit but would be difficult to tell on an 8bit monitor.

From within the program, the pdf manual says to use HDR correctly, the system must be fully HDR capable from one end of the system to the other.

I don't know if any of that is relevant to you or not. It's just how I understand it from what I have read.

I think GID, John Baker, and possibly John Brown may have better ideas or information.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 11/10/2022, 7:26 AM

@Balcerek

. . . . change log to "normal" look . . . .

Download the Sony S-log LUTS from here and put them into the folder or a subfolder (I called mine Sony S-Log 3) of

C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Videocontent\Video Pro X\VideoEffects\LUTPresets\LUTCamera

They will then appear under the Movie Looks as shown below

. . . . push some extra HDR lights to footage e.g., a Sun with some clouds, reflections etc . . . .

Do you mean increase the existing highlights or add effects/overlays?

If you mean the former than Brightness/Contrast has Gamma curve feature, you will need to play with this to get the effect right.

If the latter there are plenty of free, and paid for, overlays available on the Internet with Alpha channel (preferred) or Chromakey backgrounds.

. . . . edit HDR with wave monitor ? It only shows scale 0-100 nit (?) or 0-255 value . . . .

It is 0 - 100% of the allowed signal levels for broadcast appropriate to the colour standard, which you select in the File, Settings, Movie, Movie tab

HTH

John EB
Forum Moderator

Balcerek wrote on 11/10/2022, 7:27 AM

@CubeAce

Thank you for your answer.
I have only intel GPU and I use SDR monitors.
I want to edit my video on workstation in my bedroom and watch it on the HDR TV in saloon.
Without HDR monitor I can't change the HDR or bit-depth in Intel panel and Windows. I know that SDR monitor can show incorrect picture. This is why I want to use wave monitor to proper levels setting.

Balcerek wrote on 11/10/2022, 7:56 AM

Hello John EB !
Thank you for advice with LUT's. I will use it :)

In reference to HDR. You wrote:

It is 0 - 100% of the allowed signal levels for broadcast appropriate to the colour standard, which you select in the File, Settings, Movie, Movie tab

I agree with that, it could be that, but it isn't.
In my opinion it works wrong with HDR.
Changing from bt.709 to bt.2020 doesn't change monitor levels, and it should !
100% in HDR means 1000nit (in HDR10), so the most bright parts of SDR footage should have +/- 10% (as is 100nit), but monitor shows 100% (max).

Then when I push some levels high it should change from 10% to e.g. 500 or 700nits (50, 70%).

Another matter is this option is only gamut (color space) choose and it should be independent of max level. E.g. we can choose 1000nit, 2000nit or even more, but I assume that 1000nit for HDR10 is the right.

sasiuk wrote on 11/10/2022, 9:24 AM

@Balcerek

Hi,

Filming in S-log is not filming in HDR.

Videos recorded in high dynamic range (HDR) must be in 10-bit HEVC to be able to support the BT2020 color space.

If you want to edit such sources and maintain full brightness dynamics after final encoding, your editing workflow must support this color space end to end.

HDR delivers such rich visual information that standard monitors, even high-grade monitors, won’t be able to display the range and color of a true HDR image.

Video card and monitor must support HDR.

It is mandatory to use an HDR reference monitor.

Using a BT2020 to BT709 LUTs table will make you lose all the advantages of high dynamic range and you will have to satisfy for an SDR image after encoding.

DéDé.