Framesize settings for Video 8/Hi8 capture - both in 4:3 and 16:9

shgrude wrote on 8/27/2020, 6:45 AM

A question to John E Baker:

There are a few threads currently regarding which framesize is best to use for capturing old video footage into digital storage.

I have some myself that I have captured in VPX or MEP (not sure which - I have both) using Elgato Video capture connected between PC USB and the Camcorder (in player mode).

My old Sony Handycam CCD-TR840E is a Video Hi8 camcorder. It can capture both 4:3 and 16:9.
Is there then a difference in the framesize between the two or are they different. And what framesizes should I then use for the project for each.

And on top of that, does it make a difference to some footage captured on a Video8 only (not Hi8) tape/format. Will that fit another framesize?

Comments

AAProds wrote on 8/30/2020, 12:36 AM

@shgrude

It appears Johneb has gone AWOL... Come back john ,we need you!

In the meantime, I'll put in my two-bobs worth. From the looks of the manual for the 840, the 16-9 format is simply squashed 4-3. That is, when you play it on a 16-9 TV, it will stretch out to the correct resolution.

As far as MEP goes, you will easily be able to account for this, regardless of how you capture it. If MEP allows you to capture as 16-9 from the Elgato, well and good, but if it only allows a capture in 4-3, after the video is on the timeline, you can reset the video clip format to 16-9 by right-clicking on it and in the Object Properties, setting it to 16-9 on the Video tab. Either that, or set the Movie Settings to 16-9, then adjust the Size and Position to 16-9. That will stretch out your video to the correct shape.

In any case, give it a try with a short clip.

CubeAce wrote on 8/30/2020, 3:47 AM

@shgrude

I assume Camcorders work on the same principle as DSLRs.

In which case a 16:9 ratio is a digital crop of the 4:3 sensor. So in effect less photosites are recorded from in the 16:9 image so the top and bottom are effectively gone. The only advantage of recording 4:3 over 16:9 would be the ability to choose how high or low that crop would have if you changed the ratio in post production so it could be good for action sequences or maybe to remove unwanted objects in the corner of a frame that were not noticed at the time.

This is easily verifiable by taking two static short clips of a non changing view and comparing file size.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 8/30/2020, 5:21 AM

@shgrude, @AAProds, @CubeAce

. . . . Johneb has gone AWOL . . . .

Not AWOL, just a little busy getting my laptop and PC synced with software installs, updates and fixing a project I was working and its knock on effects with MEP.

For capture from the camcorder, the resolution you record at is a mute point and the subject of many different opinions however bearing in mind that the equivalent resolution of the analogue signal is sub DVD (SD) spec, recording at 720 x 576 there should be no difference in visual quality to recording at 1920 x 1080.

. . . . The only advantage of recording 4:3 over 16:9 would be the ability to choose how high or low that crop would have if you changed the ratio in post production . . . .

I am not sure why you would want to do that, IIRC the TR840E viewfinder displays 4:3 or 16:9 depending on the AR set.

John EB

Now to do the shopping for the week!

CubeAce wrote on 8/30/2020, 6:11 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

The same reason some people doing serious production work shoot at 4K or 8K. To be able to select a view within the frame to crop to if something goes out of frame that could be caught by recording more of the frame above or below or in the instance of shooting higher resolutions, to the sides as well. So for instance, say we have a horse rider that is fairly tightly framed and jumps a fence. The top of the horse riders head gets chopped off at the top of a 16:9 crop. The head could still be in shot if a 4:3 ratio was used at the same focal length assuming the framing was equal which often it is due to the selected focal point.

Then in post you could key frame that portion of the frame to move up for the duration keeping the whole head in frame. Also useful at air shows or close-ups.

The use when using 4K or 8K has several more uses if the intended final footage is to be shown at a lower resolution. Say 1080 or 2.7K On average you can shoot wider and crop in without loosing much in the way of resolution and still have room to reposition the shot to say perfectly centralise a person or move them to one side. In lower light situations it can help reduce grain noise and retain sharpness when exported to a lower resolution.

For the average shooter this may be too much like hard work but for production work is a useful tool.

Ray.