File size

James, file size is entirely dependent on bitrate and I suspect MEP is just using one of the preset bitrates for export, which is way above your captured OBS file.

First, find out the bitrate of your OBS-captured file. You can use Mediainfo to get the file's video bitrate.

Then, when exporting after editing in MEP, click "Advanced" and in the bitrate boxes put in the original file's bitrate plus 10%.

It will be up to you to assess if the resulting quality is OK; if not, progressively increase the bitrate until you achieve the quality you'd like.

james22taylor wrote on 9/16/2023, 4:56 AM

@james22taylor

Hi James.

IMHO.

I personally don't think you can. You can make an almost identical copy but as you have found it costs in the form of having to produce a larger file.

MP4 and similar wrappers use what is known as 'lossy' encoding. Giving a very simplified account of what roughly happens is that the file is read and then compressed as it is rendered. Compression takes the form of reducing the amount of similar looking pixels with slightly varying colour and tonal grades that are next to each other and making them into a single close colour/shade match over a given area. The less bits you allow the file to have, the more this compression will arise. To overcome most of that to a point where it is difficult to see a difference the exported file needs to be larger than the original. How much larger depends on how much degradation the person exporting the file notices any differences. H265 (HEVC) is more effective than MP4 and supposed to be able to give better quality rendering than H264 (MP4) for a comparative file size so in theory should give a better render for less bits than one is able to achieve using MP4. The downside is more processing power is needed to either encode or play back or edit such files but on modern machines this is less of a problem than it once was.

8 times larger than the original does seem a bit over the top though.

I'm sure some others will share their encoding wisdom with you and suggest encoding settings to try out but in the end it will be your eyes that will be the final judge.

I do what I need to do so I am satisfied with my results and just accept the penalties involved.

Ray.

Thanks Ray

I am more bothered about the 8 x larger file size than a reduction in resolution. 1.5 x larger I could live with even with noticible image loss.

According to the Windows Properties dialog box, the OBS Video stats are: Length: 02:06:00, Frame width: 1680, Frame height: 1050, Data rate:355kbps, Total bitrate: 547kbps, Frame rate: 30.00fps.

As you see, the video is quite long at over 2hrs. I think that I tried something like you are suggesting and on compiling it, MEP reported that it would take around 12hrs to compile. At that point I aborted and went to bed.

I'll try again with some much shorter vidoes (about 5min) and compare them.

Thanks for your insight.

Jim

james22taylor wrote on 9/16/2023, 5:24 AM

James, file size is entirely dependent on bitrate and I suspect MEP is just using one of the preset bitrates for export, which is way above your captured OBS file.

First, find out the bitrate of your OBS-captured file. You can use Mediainfo to get the file's video bitrate.

Then, when exporting after editing in MEP, click "Advanced" and in the bitrate boxes put in the original file's bitrate plus 10%.

It will be up to you to assess if the resulting quality is OK; if not, progressively increase the bitrate until you achieve the quality you'd like.

Hi. Thanks for your insight. I will try again but with a much smaller file (about 5min of video) and compare file sizes with bitrates.

AAProds wrote on 9/16/2023, 5:40 AM

I think that I tried something like you are suggesting and on compiling it, MEP reported that it would take around 12hrs to compile.

James, FYI, the length of time to encode is dependent on your system and the program version. The old MEP was not optimised for current hardware. I'm not surprised you're getting 12 hours for 2. The later versions have been optimised for encoding certain codecs. My current system (see my sig) would encode that 2 hour video in 10 minutes because it uses the RTX 3060 GPU predominately.

Set your average video bitrate to 600kbps on the Advanced Export screen and see how you go quality-wise.

As a general comment, I would be increasing my capture bitrate significantly to keep the quality up there. As a guide, I'd be trying to achieve 1.5GB per hour at least. You can set the capture bitrate in OBS.

H265 (HEVC) is more effective than MP4 and supposed to be able to give better quality rendering than H264 (MP4) for a comparative file size so in theory should give a better render for less bits than one is able to achieve using MP4.

The program is misleading in it's nomenclature. To clarify, H264 and H265 are both MPEG-4 or MP4 file types. H264 is "AVC" and H265 is "HEVC". H265/HEVC is reputably 50% more efficient than H264/AVC, so you should be able to 50% less bitrate. Unfortunately though, on older computers and old versions of MEP, the encoding speed for H265/HEVC is horrendously slow.

Former user wrote on 9/16/2023, 6:18 AM

@james22taylor Hi, unless i've missed it there's no mention of your PC specs, can you click your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with the full name of your CPU, GPU & amount of RAM, also inc the Windows & Magix version, this will then show at the bottom of your comments,

The MediaInfo asked for would help, there's a lot more to a media file then what you have shared. the App is called MediaInfo, download it, it's free & a fast download with no added adverts or any of that rubbish. https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
After downloading, right click on the media file in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the options at the top, Copy & paste the information in a new comment on here 👍

Like this

Also a picture of your export choice, open the Advanced window, use the Windows key+Shift+S, the window will go dark & options will appear at the top, choose Rectangular, use the mouse cursor to draw a box to capture the export windows, the capture will pop-up on screen bottom right or you might have to look in the Windows Notifications bottom right of the screen., then use the arrow next to the smiley at the top of a new comment to post it here,like this

Thanks.

CubeAce wrote on 9/16/2023, 7:08 AM

Hi James.

Sorry, I was thrown by your last sentence

What do I need to do to reduce the size of the exported file to match the original without losing any resolution?

For that I stand by my last statement. I was not ware by your post that it was the time constraint of excessive export times.

I don't think @AAProds is an OBS user (I may be wrong and I'm sure Al will correct me if I am). I am and constantly amazed at the quality of it's encoding file size ability compared to MEP for a given file length.

I don't know why that is but there are variations in the codecs used between the two programs.

I'm with @Former user on this one. Export times heavily rely on the hardware available as to the speed of an encode from MEP. I think a video editor in general will be slower than a screen capture device. For starters when it re-encodes it will be looking at the GOP structures of the files which may be different from the OBS file to the one produced by MEP and will be changing individual frames to try to match.

If I remember correctly, at least with the earlier versions of MEP, it you butt joined the individual clips together you could render faster if you could get the program to 'Smart Copy' which I managed to do several times in MEP 2018. It may be worth a try.

Before Al got his new system his old system may have taken as long as your current one to render an HD export.

With my current system (somewhat less powerful than Al's current setup) I think that would take me roughly half the length of the running time of the video being processed, possibly quicker with no effects / fades / or colour grading involved if I was using my own method of retaining the quality and therefore producing a somewhat larger bit rate file.

In the end though it will depend on your systems computing power as well as the bit rates involved even with Smart Copy.

Hi Al.

Why did you not give my complete quote?

H265 (HEVC) is more effective than MP4 and supposed to be able to give better quality rendering than H264 (MP4) for a comparative file size so in theory should give a better render for less bits than one is able to achieve using MP4. The downside is more processing power is needed to either encode or play back or edit such files but on modern machines this is less of a problem than it once was.

I think I qualified my statement with my second sentence.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/16/2023, 9:10 AM

Ray, I wasn't questioning your comments re processing power; I agree with those. I was just pointing out that H264 and H265 are both a subset of "MP4", so your statement "H265 (HEVC) is more effective than MP4" isn't technically correct. What you meant was "H265 is more effective/efficient than H264".

Re OBS, I have dabbled with high-bitrate captures from tape, but not to any great degree. I'll take your word for it that it is more efficient than MEP. The problem is that, as far as I understand, you can't re-encode an edited video with it, which is the situation James is in.

CubeAce wrote on 9/16/2023, 10:28 AM

Hi Al.

As far as I understand it HEVC compresses smaller blocks of pixels together than MP4 so the detail is finer which to my mind should result in a larger file than a smaller one but that obviously isn't the case so I put it under the 'Magic is happening' category.

Why OBS seems much better handling MP4 is also a mystery to me.

Below is an image showing a source file (Left data) An export via MEP (Centre) which to my eye is indistinguishable to the original but I had to export at a ridiculous bit rate, and finally a screen capture of the source file by OBS. The efficiency of the program once I found settings that worked well is just outstanding.

What I am looking out for is more blockiness in larger areas of solid colour, Tonal graduation banding elimination of areas like sky and for the image not to change it's sharpness.

Some Editing seems possible within OBS. In Studio mode you can import and do basic editing to any video clip but I've never really gone into it or read the manual. It is not that straightforward. At least if not straightforward, not intuitive. I think I would have to read the manual and spend time with it.

I can't use OBS to both capture and play a file within it at the same time and MEP / VPX is blanking out on me when I try to capture OBS working. I can show an image of OBS in Studio mode playing a file I selected ready for basic editing. Those are added by pressing the + button in the Sources section while in Studio mode. Then right clicking brings up other menus and there is further optioned in the Scene transitions section.

Again, I haven't used or tried those functions at all but they all seem accessible.

Playing any existing file you choose within OBS Studio Mode.

Some of the editing options in Studio mode although how to apply them successfully or succinctly I have no idea.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/16/2023, 10:37 AM

Ray, I say again: HEVC is also MP4. What you mean is "HEVC compresses smaller blocks of pixels together than AVC". HEVC is H265, AVC is H264. They are both of the MP4 family. Encode a HEVC file. The file extension is MP4.

johnebaker wrote on 9/16/2023, 12:50 PM

@AAProds, @CubeAce

Hi Al, Ray

. . . . They are both of the MP4 family. . . . .

To be 'pedantic' MP4 being a container file format, not a 'Family' of codecs, can contain a variety of other encoding formats than just h.264 and h.265, which are of the same codec family to which you can also add x.264 and x.265 and AVC (a subset of h.264) codecs.

We have had isues in the past with users not being able to import 'MP4' video files because internally they have had video and/or audio codecs that MEP does not support eg 10 bit HEVC/h.264 and the ProRes codec.

Hi.

The Windows properties of the OBS clip gives us only partial information of what you actually have, a MediaInfo analysis of the OBS clip - see this tutorial on how to setup MediaInfo to get the full information required.

John EB
Forum Moderator

CubeAce wrote on 9/16/2023, 12:51 PM

Hi Al.

You say tomato, I say big red squishy thing 🤣.

Either way there are only 'Export as MPEG-4' or Export as HEVC options for those wrappers within the programs.

MPEG-4 exports using 'Advanced Video Coding' (avc 1) and HEVC exports using 'High Efficiency Video Coding' (hvc1).

Curiously I have noticed that the OBS output at my settings within OBS produces exactly the same bit rate using MPEG-4 as MEP / VPX does using the standard export for the same resolution using HEVC.

Both give a similar output quality but the quality edge is still with OBS against that Magix HEVC setting to my eye.

Ray

johnebaker wrote on 9/16/2023, 3:32 PM

Hi Ray

. . . . Both give a similar output quality but the quality edge is still with OBS against that Magix HEVC setting to my eye . . .

We had a big discussion on OBS recordings a while ago in the forum. IIRC you did a lot of work testing OBS settings and those that closely matched what MEP/MMS/VPX were outputting became the recommended 'standard' settings for users of OBS to avoid all the potential pitfalls that occur when allowing OBS to do its own thing with the defauklt settings?

John EB

AAProds wrote on 9/16/2023, 6:49 PM

@johnebaker

h.264 and h.265, which are of the same codec family to which you can also add x.264 and x.265 and AVC (a subset of h.264) codecs.

John, x264 is not a codec; it is the name of a particular encoding engine. It produces AVC/H264 MPEG-4 files.

Either way there are only 'Export as MPEG-4' or Export as HEVC options for those wrappers within the programs.

Ray, that is my point. The Magix nomenclature is wrong. Add to the mix AV1, which is also an MPEG-4 file type.

CubeAce wrote on 9/16/2023, 9:25 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Yes I remember it well and have kept to the same settings since. The files still work with MEP / MMS / VPX without incident.

Hi Al.

And yet confusion reigns when a video editor cannot produce a similar file size for a wrapper that contains what people assume are the same codecs. Add to that OBS can record AV1 without needing the related hardware that I haven't tried yet as apart from saving space and video streaming has still yet to gain real world traction for use. I have no idea what type of processing hit using av1 would have using such files for editing or playback on a given system.

Right or wrong we are dealing with people using Magix products who on the whole don't understand or care about the labelling, only the results. We have suffered or not from this in all walks of life. Bonnet / Hood, Jam / Jello, Sidewalk / pavement etc. But we get the gist. I don't have to know how my TV works, just how to turn it on.

I have mov extension files that can't be played by VLC player or Windows Media Player or Film and TV but can be played on the Quicktime Player and imported and used in MEP / MMS / VPX. Ostensibly an MPEG-4 wrapper but with an ap4h codec id.

Does it matter as long as it can be used? Can you explain why only MEP, VPX, and the QuickTime player can handle that type of file on my machine? Would I care? Does it effect the end result in any way?

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/16/2023, 10:05 PM

Ray, I'm only talking about Magix export. I'm sure there are all sorts of exotic MP4 codecs than can or can't be opened by various programs, but that's not my point.

IMO, the Magix Export menu should be:

MP4 (AVC)

MP4 (HEVC)

MP4 (AV1).

james22taylor wrote on 9/17/2023, 3:27 AM

@james22taylor

James, file size is entirely dependent on bitrate and I suspect MEP is just using one of the preset bitrates for export, which is way above your captured OBS file.

First, find out the bitrate of your OBS-captured file. You can use Mediainfo to get the file's video bitrate.

Then, when exporting after editing in MEP, click "Advanced" and in the bitrate boxes put in the original file's bitrate plus 10%.

It will be up to you to assess if the resulting quality is OK; if not, progressively increase the bitrate until you achieve the quality you'd like.

Hi. Thanks for your insight. I will try again but with a much smaller file (about 5min of video) and compare file sizes with bitrates.

james22taylor wrote on 9/17/2023, 3:39 AM

After some experiments with smaller files (less compile times) I discovered that the Advanced export panel in MAGIX was set at an Average bit rate of 22000kBit/s and Max bit rate at 28000kBit/s. I reduced these to 500kBit/s and 1000kBit/s respectively and the compiled file size dropped from 8x to 1.6x and with a quite acceptable resultant resolution and this I can live with.

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this issue and I am overwhelmed with the response - thanks to all - Jim/James

AAProds wrote on 9/17/2023, 4:26 AM