Failure to hold image rotation

CubeAce wrote on 9/27/2021, 2:31 PM

Hi Al.

Sorry for such a late reply.

If the images are showing up sideways in Windows Explorer, either as thumbnails or when viewed through the Windows picture viewer app then the problem lies in the headers of the jpgs as windows is not 'seeing' them properly.

Ideally this should be dealt with in Windows by clicking on an image in the folder (Thus opening it in a Windows application) and then rotating until it shows correctly. In this instance I am going to turn one of my portrait images into landscape. Once rotated in the image viewer, Windows should remember this. The image should now also show up in the correct orientation within MEP to use.

So there is no need for further work or worry about MEP 'Remembering' which way around it is.

If however this sounds like too much work ,don't forget to add a key frame in the key frame editor after rotating the image so the program can remember what you have done and then save the project before closing.

Ray.

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/28/2021, 8:23 AM

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. However, I am confused. Why doesn't Movie Studio just remember when I rotate the image in the application? What good is the Effect/View-animation/rotate facility if the program won't retain the change? I am not sure how to add a key frame. Perhaps that would solve the problem if I knew how to do it.

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/28/2021, 9:20 AM

Also, rotating them outside of Movie studio also doesn't work. I opened the images in another application, rotated them, imported them into Movie Studio and they were still rotated in preview, though they were correct on the timeline. That is also what I do not understand. Why is the image correctly displayed on the timeline but rotated in preview and when rendered? This problem makes the program essentially useless for any kind of slideshow work.

CubeAce wrote on 9/28/2021, 10:17 AM

@alpalmer1

Hi.

How to add a key marker to the rotation is in my last image with arrows showing the order of what to do. All images will expand upon clicking on them.

Opening any of my jpgs in Windows picture viewer (default program for Windows) and using the rotation button as shown previously in the earlier images normally keeps that position throughout all applications that could use the image. The problem is always with the jpeg header file. Either the camera has not added a correct header or the operator has asked for the jpg to be shown in the camera viewfinder as upright rather than turning the camera screen around to view the image on the full view-screen. That would cause the image to be seen sideways in Windows and would also cause trouble for Windows and editing in general.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/28/2021, 8:07 PM

@alpalmer1 @CubeAce

MEP 2021 (equivalent to MS18), there is no need to set any keyframes for Rotation; the program remembers the rotation on re-opening the project.

The image appears rotated and proper in the timeline but is not rotated in the preview screen.

On my 2021 timeline, the the timeline thumbnail (image object) shows the original image. I can't rotate the timeline thumbnail. When I apply the rotation using the tumbler (top right of the Rotation screen) the Preview rotates but the timeline thumbnail displays the original aspect.

Could you please post one of your problem images so we can have try with it?

I'll add that I find MEP great for slideshows; easy to set up the the Ken Burns effect (pan and crop) and setting image length to the frame to match the music.

johnebaker wrote on 9/29/2021, 5:32 AM

@alpalmer1

Hi

. . . . I bring them into the slideshow and want to make them appear correctly. . . . .

Depending on the rotation tool you used there was an issue with some mobile devices images/video., if you used the tool crossed out shown below, then there was a known issue with this in the earlier version of MEP that Movie Studio is based on, the setting would not hold or the image would be displaced.

The circled control is the one to use for rotation, set the rotation value as 90 for clockwise or -90 for counter clockwise rotation.

HTH

John EB
Forum Moderator

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/29/2021, 8:02 AM

Replying to the last two comments: That is precisely my problem. It does not remember the rotation when the project is reopened, no matter how I do it. I have tried rotating it with another app outside the program, using the rotation tool in the upper right hand of the rotation effect and rotating the image using the handles on the preview window. Saving and reopening the project results in the image not being rotated. The timeline is always properly rotated. The preview window is not and it renders unrotated. All of these images were taken with a digital camera. I like every other aspect of this program for slideshow creation but for practical purposes, it is useless if some images are displayed on their sides. Actually, it turns out to be a bit more complicated. I selected an image to post. When I looked at it outside MEP with another app, it was properly oriented on the screen. That is, it was taken with the camera held vertically and it was displayed that way. When it was brought into MEP, it rotated it so that it was oriented horizontally. That rotation is the one that I am trying to correct. Here is the image.

CubeAce wrote on 9/29/2021, 8:55 AM

@alpalmer1

Unfortunately once the image is posted to a website page all of the relevant data that we need to see and test is stripped away. We need to download the image from either a Dropbox link or something like a wetransfer link.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 9/29/2021, 9:08 AM

@alpalmer1

Hi

. . . . I have tried rotating it with another app outside the program . . . .

Did you save the rotated image as a new file and name?

If not and you overwrite the original file the header information containing the rotation flag may not be updated.

John EB

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/29/2021, 1:17 PM

This link should take you to one of the images that I have had trouble with.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9fsthnif96364yz/Dave%20%26%20shirt.JPG?dl=0

johnebaker wrote on 9/29/2021, 2:32 PM

@alpalmer1

Hi

Thanks for the image.

According to the EXIF information the image orientation is Landscape, Top left, and the Height, Width ratio also indicates a Landscape format - see image below - this may be what is causing the issue you are having with rotation.

Has the original been rotated in camera after taking or rotated in software to make it portrait?

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 9/29/2021, 2:37 PM

@alpalmer1 @johnebaker @AAProds

Thank you Al for the image.

I can find nothing wrong with the image. It shows in Windows correctly. Shows correctly in MEP 2022 and VXP 11.

Normal type of image from a Canon Power Shot A75. May have been edited in an earlier version of Photoshop. Not sure about the last bit but seems to have been saved in Adobe RGB.

Rotates and keep rotation after closing either of my two programs without having to add key frames. Exports as set in the project.

So there are two possibilities.

There is something not working In MS18? that should be.

Or.

A part of your system is not up to spec for the program to run without incident.

Can you now supply the complete spec of your machine please? Windows Build and version. Any graphics card make model and driver build. Processor type and model number. Amount of physical ram.

That information could rule out your computer and then you have enough evidence to put forward a ticket to Magix as a suspected bug and expect some form of reply.

I say suspected bug because either we can't duplicate the problem ourselves or don't have your version of the program.

Magix could run a test though with the file provided. They provide a box to put any suspect file into that should not change the exif data.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 9/29/2021, 2:39 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Have just seen your reply. Which line of code is that?

I missed it. However I can't explain my findings above then.

Windows is reading it correctly.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 9/29/2021, 2:47 PM

@johnebaker @alpalmer1

Oh!

Still.

Why no problem with MEP but problem with MS18 or could it be hardware related?

[Edit] I don't think that is the original image. It is too small file size wise at only 693KBs.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/29/2021, 7:37 PM

@alpalmer1 @CubeAce @johnebaker

No issues with sticky rotation using that image here (MEP 2021). It remains rotated after I close and reopen the project.

johnebaker wrote on 9/30/2021, 5:21 AM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

The information I posted is the EXIF data - your image editing program should be able to show this (PSP does) or you can use an EXIF Viewer to see it.

John EB

me_again wrote on 9/30/2021, 5:53 AM

Greetings,

For anyone interested in the EXIF data of files, I use Exiftool, a tiny free program from https://exiftool.org/exiftool-12.31.zip which for a lot of files I think gives more information than MedaInfo and it's easier to use than loading PSP or any other editing program.

Just extract the .exe from the zip and put it somewhere with a shortcut to it that's easily accesible (I use desktop) then just drag and drop the photo or video onto the shortcut.

I know this is off topic so apologies but it may be of use to someone.

AndyW

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/30/2021, 8:15 AM

Let me respond to the posts. First, to johnebaker. Thanks so much for taking to time to work with me on this. There were about 300 images in the slide show and about four or five had this problem. There were others that were taken vertically and appeared properly in the program. There were only about a half dozen or so that would not hold the rotation. I do not think that that image was adjusted in any photo editing program. In any event, I am running Windows 10 Pro, fully updated on an Asus Z370 motherboard with an Intel i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80ghz. There is 32 GB of memory in the system. I assembled this system to do video editing and it has worked fine for that. I run everything I can in 64 bit. I have been using Vegas movie studio through several editions.

I was able to complete the slideshow yesterday by using the cubeace instructions (above) for inserting keyframes. That seemed to work and all of the images in the exported show were properly oriented. That seems to be more complicated that it should be. Using the rotation button should be enough. Perhaps I am expecting too much.

For AAProds: your screenshot shows my problem exactly. In that shot, the image on the time line is properly oriented (vertical) and in the preview screen, it is rotated (horizontal). If you exported that, it would likely be horizontal in the output.

CubeAce wrote on 9/30/2021, 8:59 AM

@alpalmer1

Hi.

Earlier you said you had all updates on your system.

What driver are you using for your Intel® UHD Graphics 630? If you have no nvidia graphics card, the HD 630 will be responsible for the majority of 3D work going on within the program.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 9/30/2021, 9:16 AM

@alpalmer1 Sorry, I probably misled you a bit. That screenshot was after I had applied a 90° rotation to it. I couldn't display the Rotation dialogue at the same time as showing the MVP icon showing it saved the image on it's side. That screenshot was after I re-opened the project; the rotate I put on it had stuck.

Re the timeline icon, that will always represent the actual image.as shown in the media pool. Any rotation applied will not affect the timeline image.

All I can say here is, with MEP 2021, the image comes onto the timeline upright and after a 90° rotation is applied (without keyframes), the image exports on it's side.

Looks like a bug in MSP 18.

alpalmer1 wrote on 9/30/2021, 9:42 AM

I am using the onboard Intel UHD Graphics 630. I do not have a separate graphics card.

CubeAce wrote on 9/30/2021, 9:46 AM

@alpalmer1

I am using the onboard Intel UHD Graphics 630. I do not have a separate graphics card.

Yes. It still needs its drivers updated. Which driver are you currently on?

Latest Intel HD 630 Driver is version 30.0.100.9864

Ray.