I have an audio file on the timeline and wish to edit it. I have been splitting an object, copy and pasting then grouping together. I have tried to use the shortcuts on page 222 of the manual - failed. I wish to keep an object as one after deleting parts, copy and pasting etc. Can someone point me to an appropriate tutorial please?
Tony
Hi Tony.
I'm not sure if you understand what happens within any modern editor whether audio of video based.
All modern editors are NLE (Non-linear editing) meaning the original file is never altered or replaced.
Within the editor you can copy, repeat, replace, move, and add effects (if the editor allows) but the original sound file remains intact.
The only way to get the file in one piece as you have edited it is to export it as a new file, be it to wav or mp3. Unfortunately those are the only export options for MMS 2023 and VPX 14. They are found in the 'export as' section of the program.
The downside with MMS or VPX is that wav file exports are limited to export at 16 bit so if your original file is 24 or 32 bit the resulting file will be truncated to 16 bits although you can still choose to export the file at its original sampling rate.
That file can then be re-imported into the project or any other future project if you wish.
Ray.
Thanks Ray - I am on a vertical learning curve. So, given what you have suggested - can you advise of a good editing program that can easily work within Magix Studio. It comes with Music Editor 3. Is there a good tutorial you know of for voice over using this program? I have been learning Audacity to gain the concepts - but the exporting of the wav file produced by Magix Studio requires an extra step - export, save then import into Audacity. For simplicity I would prefer to use the Music Editor 3 program. What I am doing, or rather trying to do is very basic.
Hi Tony.
Unfortunately not. Any external audio editor I try to use fails to load the selected sound files. This I think is because the video editor is not releasing the file to the other program. Having said that those are all third party audio editors and not Magix ones. Also it could be I need to alter a Windows setting somewhere. That's possible but I've never needed to edit sound files externally for a project.
I am currently at a loss as to what you are trying to do that requires an external editor as with using one you could only open one selected section of a sound file at a time.
If you need to re EQ or add an effect to a selection on a given sound track just move that sound object to another track and use the programs mixer to add the adjustments to those selected sound objects. If it is a sound volume adjustment that can be done on the same track either by automating the mixer volume slider or adjusting the object volume handle within each edited object.
Ray.
I have checked my Windows and program settings and I can't get the third party editors to work. It's because I use ASIO drivers for my audio editing programs but Magix is using Direct X.
I prefer ASIO for latency in my DAWS so I suppose I could change it for Cubase but again I could only do this to one sound object at a time. I don't personally see the point. At least with the ME3 editor you can reimport the changed file copy back in to MMS. I'm not sure I could do that with Cubase. I don't use SoundForge, Music Maker or Samplitude (All Magix products) but I think John CB (John Brown) does.
He is probably the best person to advise on external audio editing from within MMS rather than myself.
Ray.
Hi Tony,
I gave you two long messages about doing Voice Over in this thread. Read them again.
The best place to do VO is right in the video editor as I described because you can also make adjustments to the video part if necessary. ME3 is for cleaning/mastering either individual parts or one whole audio file.
I wish to keep an object as one after deleting parts, copy and pasting etc. Can someone point me to an appropriate tutorial please?
Yes, once you have your audio VO done and presumably on one track, do a mixdown of just that track (and range) and you'll get one audio file of everything. See the tutorial below.
Alternatively, just group the audio files or lock the track against changes.
If you want to keep the original audio, then you have to note where you placed the mixed down file, then Undo in MMS and the file will disappear and the original audio clips will come back. Mute the track. Import the mixed down audio file onto another track.
I have Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab 3 and 4 installed. I could do an export of the project, and import that into SFACL to do VO. SFACL has 8 tracks to play with. Once done, save the SFACL project, export to wave (only the VO not the original audio unless you also cleaned it) and import it into the MMS project. Mute any audio that you don't need. The problem with doing this in SFACL is if you have to then adjust the video parts, you can't in SFACL. You would have to do it again. Of course, you wouldn't lose any VO files as they are all separate wave files but you are in an iteration. You would have to fix the video, mixdown/export, replace the Video file in the external editor project, and adjust the VO parts.
A big advantage of using an external editor like SFACL is being able to better adjust the volume and see the results on the waveform. Normalization, for example, adjusts the height of the waveform. You don't see this in the video editor, but you do in the external audio editor. Also, you can use the sophisticated effects on the object.
Hi Ray,
It seems that the only external audio editors that work from the timeline in MMS/VPX are ME3, SFACL 1 to 3, not 4, and older versions of ACL and Audio & Music Lab, Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, which has a cleaning and restoration part (non-Suite does not have this) and I don't know about more recent versions, and finally Sound Forge Audio Studio 12.6 (more recent ones do not work). The external audio editor feature in MMS/VPX sends the HDP file and not the wave to the external audio editor. The aforementioned programs can open the HDP files, not others. This has been on the bug list for a long time and I have complained more recently about SFACL4 not being able to be used.
The workaround, of course, is to either mix down to get the wave file, or export to wave and use the wave file in the external audio editor and either write over it or export with another name, then import that onto the timeline.
EDIT: As an aside, the exe files for the various versions of SFACL is the same as for Audio & Music Lab - AMLab_x64.exe. As I have mentioned, this program is an upgrade of ME3 which is now very old. I started with Magix many years ago with Audio Cleaning Lab and have followed it through many iterations to today's SFACL4.
John CB
Hi John.
The external audio editor feature in MMS/VPX sends the HDP file and not the wave to the external audio editor.
I'm not sure how that would work as the H0 and HDP files are not large enough to contain any audio data. none of those file types are larger than 3KBs.
It is a puzzle to me as to what is actually transferred externally as I also tried making changes for my audio editors to use Direct X and that too failed to launch either program.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
I believe that just the HDP info is enough to indicate the wave file.
Do this test. In Windows Explorer, right-click on an HDP file that has an associated wave file. Open With, Choose another app, Look for app on PC, and navigate to MMS2023 (or 2022), MusicEditor and select MusicEditor.exe. It will open with the wave file present.
John CB
Would love to John but I'm sure I reported on the forum some time back that ME3 has stopped working on my system.
On reflection what I think is happening when using ME3 within MMS or VPX is that The H0 file gives the graphics needed to represent where the information (waveform) is being loaded to in the timeline (or could be placed) and the HDP file is giving instructions as to when and how to add the alterations made by the vst making the changes. If there is a new wav file produced it should show up somewhere within the project folder and be much larger than either of the H0 or HDP files. ME3, when it worked for me never showed any more plugins than was available within the main program.
However if MMS / VPX is using H0 / HDP files to send to ME3 it explains why my third party editors can't recognise the file formats.
Ray.
Hi Ray,
To get the wave file, you have to do a mixdown. This creates a wave file and the temporary files, H0 and HDP. There will be no VST effects with the HDP. MMS and VPX do not allow VST's to be added to objects, only built-in effects and those are remembered by the project file, not the HDP.
For clarity, I am talking about files that can be opened by the audio editors in question. I have not tried opening an HDP associated with a video clip, for example.
John CB
HI Ray
. . . . What I'm trying to get at is what file type is MEP / VPX opening within ME3? . . . .
The WAV file - the .HDP file contains information about the WAV file and the .H0 the wave form graphics.
This is the MediaInfo data for one of the mixdown files I am getting:
General
Complete name : W:\MAGIX\DVD_BD_Projects\Export\2023-06-130.WAV
Format : Wave
File size : 8.50 MiB
Duration : 46 s 416 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Track name : Mix file
Writing application : Created with MAGIX music maker
Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 46 s 416 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 8.50 MiB (100%)
The odd line is 'Writing application : Created with MAGIX music maker' - this particular file was created by VPX 14.
Importing of the mixdown WAV created by VPX/MMS works fine in my Nero Wave Editor software.
John EB
Hi John.
But can you replace ME3 with Nero within VPX or MMS to do the same job?
My point throughout this to answer @Tony-Haack s question which was
can you advise of a good editing program that can easily work within Magix Studio.
and my reply was I can't get either of my third party audio editors to do that but suspected it had to be a Magix based editor. @browj2 has pretty much confirmed that but I'm trying to figure out why should that be?
Ray.
John and Ray. Thank you. I will continue to explore options and hopefully between us all, one will appear.
Tony
Hi Tony,
I'm not sure what you are after. The information that I gave you in the other thread should be good enough.
There is nothing that is "within" Movie Studio. Even ME3 is not within.
What is missing?
Do you want to see how to do VO and editing in SFACL3/4?
John CB
John - Music Editor 3 will probably do what I need. Have again tried it this morning. If Sound Forge is similar in functionality and an interface, and a training offering is available for VO - great. The offering within the timeline is good - and thanks to you and Ray - have got on top of that. I wish to go a little further and learn more about using the Music Editor 3 product which is integrated as opposed to Audacity.
Am I on the right track?
Tony
Hi
. . . . I wish to go a little further and learn more about using the Music Editor 3 product which is integrated as opposed to Audacity. . . .
What is it you want to do in the external after recording the narration?
Assuming you have followed @browj2 procedures in the topic on doing voice overs, you should have good recordings which do not need extensive corrections using an external editor, all the things you have mentioned above ie splitting an object, copy and pasting can be done in MMS/VPX. which is the same as in an external editor - with different keyboard shortcuts
John EB
So, if I cut a voice over into several parts, I can join them altogether again in Magix Studio? Alternatively, and ideally, I should be able to achieve this by using the correct shortcuts. I have tried using the ones in the manual and failed! I am still missing a procedure. Any further thought starters you have would be appreciated.
PS - I have just tried the auto ducking feature you showed me - wow - very good.
Tony
So, if I cut a voice over into several parts, I can join them altogether again in Magix Studio?
Essentially yes, but can you explain more fully why you need to do this, especially the bit about joining them all together again?
When you render/export the finished project, however many separate objects exist on the timeline they will ALL be exported as one continuous voiceover, video. or whatever. Cutting objects is normally done to either, permanently remove/delete an unwanted section or, to enable the object to be moved to a different place on the timeline.
Ray, @CubeAce earlier explained to you that video editing is "non-linear", meaning that you will NEVER make any change to your original files! Your. mvp project file is essentially a database listing ALL the steps the exporting process is to take to convert those original files to your desired final version, without ever altering them.
BTW, the way to tag another member, as Ray indicated is to simply type @, and a screen will open showing all the contributors to the thread and you can then select any one or more of them to turn the highlight blue. I have edited your last post to ensure John receives notification of your tag!
Jeff
Forum Moderator
Thanks Jeff. The reason I wish to cut a voice over - maybe I stammered, repeated myself or even left too large a gap between some words. I must agree though, as I get more practice, the need is not so great. Is there a way of doing this easily without have separate objects grouped together? Thanks to the forum, I have made huge advances.
The @ symbol - very helpful.
Tony
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the additional information. But I think you are overthinking this!
Removing those stammers, repeats etc., is "editing" the audio. You achieve this by cutting the audio both sides of your "mistake" and then deleting the unwanted portion. Then you do have a lot of separate objects.
But, there is no need at all to group those separate objects! They can and will entirely happily exist as separate objects but your export will see them all as "one", i.e. the final video will have ALL your VO sections exactly where you placed them on the timeline and in sync with whatever video object they align with. So, if you like to think of it this way, the Export will group them, you need do nothing!
HTH
Jeff
👍👍👍
Except for the auto ducking. I think that should be done afterwards by first recording the voice-over without it.
Edit and arrange the voice-over track as you need within MMS so it is in sync with the visuals and then export the voice-over only as a wave file. (mute all other unwanted sound tracks)
Then re-record the voice-over track by selecting the 'Stereo Mix option' as the sound source and add the auto ducking at that point using the MMS recording function. Play the voice-over file back via a media player while the video plays plays back being mindful of when to start the voice-over track to keep it in sync. Then the auto ducked passages should be in sync. You may have to check the volume level of the media player first.
Re-import that file into the project and mute all other sound tracks.
At least I think that should work.
Ray.
Hi
As @emmrecs has commented - 'You achieve this by cutting the audio both sides of your "mistake" and then deleting the unwanted portion. Then you do have a lot of separate objects.'
Below is the timeline for my Mixer tutorial here - as you can see the narration audio is multiple separate objects on the timeline - the 'ducking' was done manually.
My method is somewhat different in that I use a Digital Voice Recorder reading from a script with pauses between paragraphs, as one take without the distraction of trying to time the pace of speech and fit it to the video. I then imported the DVR recording cut it into the appropriate segments deleting the parts where I make errors.
The video is made to fit the audio, which is usually at a slower pace then the video, using another feature of MMS - Insert still image at the playback marker - access this by right click of the video clip, this, in effect, 'pauses' the video - there are 2 indicated by the yellow arrows in the image above. The length of the image(s) can be adjusted to the required 'pause' period to fit the audio.
HTH
John EB
Hi Tony,
To reinforce what the other have said, look at the image below.
This is part of the timeline for a tutorial. My original narration is on track 6. Note that it is in many pieces, most are trimmed, moved, some redone and repositioned, etc., and some slightly overlap (transition). Some show the object volume curve with adjustments where I spoke too loudly. Note that this track is muted in this tutorial. Normally, this is the track that I use at the end. In this particular case, I did a mixdown of track 6 only, then undo, then imported the mixed down audio file onto track 5 and completed it there. This creates one object of my entire narration and I can export it to SFACL and do whatever adjustments and cleaning and mastering there, then the file is updated on the timeline automatically. I did this only at the very end when I was satisfied that nothing would move. However, I still have my original audio files on the timeline in case I have to go back. This is not something that I would do if I had sporadic narration and wanted to do ducking - I would just use the audio recorded into MMS.
See the video that I posted in your other post about ducking. Note that if I ducked using the narration of track 5 which is continuous from start to finish, then any audio on any other track would be ducked - reduced in volume - for the entire track. This is not what one would ever want or need to do. Look at the image above, track 7, which has a little piece of music. I do not want that ducked, so I would never duck the continuous audio clip. You have to understand what you want to do, what you are doing, and what the tools do and use them appropriately.
You mentioned Sound Forge but I always said Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab or SFACL. To avoid confusion, always be precise as there is Sound Forge Audio Studio and Sound Forge Pro. They are not the same.
As I mentioned in another post, you can do all narration in SFACL, but only if you have completed the video and nothing will ever change. You export the project from MMS (best to export to mxv) and import this into SFACL then do your narration. You will have exactly the same problems of trimming, redoing, moving things around in SFACL as you do in MMS, so why do it? The only benefit is that you have better tools to work with audio. Do you really need those tools?
I want to make a distinction here. In MMS, the Edit Audio Externally command that goes to ME3 or another Magix audio editor that works, is for exporting the selected audio clip, a wave file, and doing audio adjustments, cleaning and mastering only - not for doing voice over or any recording.
For doing voice over or recording in an external audio editor, you don't use the Edit Audio Externally command. This is something entirely different.
If you want a good audio recording and editing tool, I suggest that you download the trial of SFACL4 and play with it. I don't suggest purchasing it until Magix corrects the bugs. You will see that it is just a much more advanced version of ME3. I started with Audio Cleaning Lab 10 in 2005. Even then it was more advanced than ME3 IIRC.
I have used ACL/SFACL to record from vinyl, audio cassettes, rip from CD's (recordings of my wife's shows and songs, recording from Super8 Sound projector amongst other uses. And, I have used it for cleaning (spectral cleaning) up problems in recordings, including the audio part of videos. I have used it for creating individual files from cassettes for either to exporting individual wave files or creating CD's. The one thing that I have not done is voice over.
One last thing that may interest you is scoring/dubbing video. Watch this old tutorial that I did, one of my first.
Of course, Music Maker has greatly changed since then, as has MEP/MMS. Also, Music Maker no longer has the Share command, so you have to export then import into MEP/MMS.
John CB