Dropped sound with imported video files from MiniDV tape

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/29/2023, 4:47 PM

I have tried to import a video file from my an old camcorder which used MiniDV tapes using a firewire cable (4 pin camera to 6 pin on firewire pc card). The recorder function in MAGIX Movie Studio 2023 finds the camera okay and is able to control it. However, when I upload the video, the whole of the video file uploads as an .avi file okay, and the first 1min 45 seconds of sound, but then the sound drops. Both the video and sound play back in the preview during the upload process without fault. Interestingly if I try and break the video down into tracks for ease of manipulation, tracks are formed for the same section of footage as the sound, but not subsequently. I have tried uploading the footage with and without track formation but this doesn't make any difference, i.e. sound is lost at the same point. Any clues please? Thanks!

Comments

AAProds wrote on 1/29/2023, 7:35 PM

@JeffB2310

Jeff, an odd one! MEP/MMS has traditionally been pretty good with capturing DV although I will admit that I use WinDV or Scenealyser, because I like splitting up my captures and having each clip named by date/time, instead of having one huge DV file which might have a couple of different subjects in it.

The first thing to check is playing the file in a standard player such as VLC Player to confirm the audio does actually drop out at 1min 45sec.

A good program for checking DV files is DVDate. If that shows the same issue, you could try converting it to Type 1 and back to type 2 (or the other way round, I can't remember which type MMS records in).

Try capturing another tape.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/30/2023, 1:56 AM

Many thanks. I'll work my way through these suggestions and see how I go.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/30/2023, 6:26 AM

Ok. Having tried the above I had the following results:

1. If I play the same uploaded .avi file using DVDate I get the same issues with the sound dropping at the same point.

2. I have used DVDate to covert the .avi file from Type 1 to Type 2 then back, which hasn't cured the issue.

3. I have uploaded another tape and haven't got the same problem with the sound having dropped.

Might it be worth me utilising a different app. for uploading from camera e.g. WinDV instead?

Thanks again!

johnebaker wrote on 1/30/2023, 7:55 AM

@JeffB2310

. . . . I have used DVDate to covert the .avi file from Type 1 to Type 2 then back, which hasn't cured the issue. . . .

Try converting the AVI file from its original type 1 to type 2 - do not convert it back again, this defeats the purpose of the conversion.

John EB
Forum Moderator

AAProds wrote on 1/30/2023, 8:23 AM

The reason I suggested to type 1 and back to 2 is that there would be a possibility that DVDate would fix any audio glitch, then returning the corrected DV AVI back to the native Magix type.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/30/2023, 1:43 PM

Ok. So I have converted from the starting .avi which was Type 2 into Type 1 (sorry I got these back to front initially). I do end up with some sound but there is a white noise across it and the voices sound like persons on helium.

johnebaker wrote on 1/30/2023, 1:59 PM

@JeffB2310

. . . . I do end up with some sound but there is a white noise across it and the voices sound like persons on helium. . . .

Download and install MediaInfo and analyse the starting AVI clip and the DVDate converted clip and post the results, see this tutorial on how to setup MediaInfo and analyse a video clip for all the data required.

John EB

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/30/2023, 4:04 PM

I have just tried one more thing, which is to download and run WinDV, and have used this to capture same footage off the MiniDV tape via the camcorder. I have the same issue as I encountered with Magix. It seems that WinDV uploads the first eight scenes, with sound uploaded and able to play back into the eighth scene and then the video is silent. Although the camera continues to play and WinDV remains in capture mode, no further scenes are detected or uploaded. The entire tape will upload using Magix as long as I don't break into tracks, however, the loss of sound occurs at the same point in the full length .avi file. However during the capture mode the sound if clearly audible throughout.

Any clues please as to a likely cause and possible fix. Thanks once again.

Jeff

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/30/2023, 4:35 PM

I have converted two separate scenes that were uploaded as scenes by WinDV. The first is the last of the series of scenes that uploaded correctly, were captured as scenes, with full sound. The second is the last scene uploaded by WinDV, which is where the sound is lost mid-scene.

I have downloaded and used Media Info as advised to analyse both of these with the following results:

Previous scene where scene and audio capture function correctly:

General

Complete name : F:\MY VIDEOS\Mini DV tapes\Cai Baby WinDV.12-10-07_11-12.01.avi

Format : AVI

Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave

Commercial name : DVCAM

File size : 53.4 MiB

Duration : 14 s 640 ms

Overall bit rate mode : Constant

Overall bit rate : 30.6 Mb/s

Recorded date : 2012-10-07 11:12:37.000

Video

ID : 0

Format : DV

Commercial name : DVCAM

Codec ID : dvsd

Codec ID/Hint : Sony

Duration : 14 s 640 ms

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s

Width : 720 pixels

Height : 576 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 4:3

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 25.000 FPS

Standard : PAL

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth : 8 bits

Scan type : Interlaced

Scan order : Bottom Field First

Compression mode : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357

Time code of first frame : 00:01:31:11

Time code source : Subcode time code

Stream size : 50.3 MiB (94%)

Encoding settings : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus

Audio

ID : 1

Format : PCM

Format settings : Little / Signed

Codec ID : 1

Duration : 14 s 640 ms

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s) : 2 channels

Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz

Bit depth : 16 bits

Stream size : 2.68 MiB (5%)

Alignment : Aligned on interleaves

Interleave, duration : 40 ms (1.00 video frame)

Interleave, preload duration : 40 ms

Scene where sound is lost half way through:

General

Complete name : F:\MY VIDEOS\Mini DV tapes\Cai Baby WinDV.12-10-07_11-56.00.avi

Format : AVI

Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave

Commercial name : DVCAM

File size : 942 MiB

Duration : 4 min 33 s

Overall bit rate mode : Constant

Overall bit rate : 28.9 Mb/s

Recorded date : 2012-10-07 11:56:02.000

Video

ID : 0

Format : DV

Commercial name : DVCAM

Codec ID : dvsd

Codec ID/Hint : Sony

Duration : 4 min 33 s

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s

Width : 720 pixels

Height : 576 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 4:3

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 25.000 FPS

Standard : PAL

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth : 8 bits

Scan type : Interlaced

Scan order : Bottom Field First

Compression mode : Lossy

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357

Time code of first frame : 00:01:46:02

Time code source : Subcode time code

Stream size : 938 MiB (100%)

Encoding settings : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus

Audio

ID : 1

Format : PCM

Format settings : Little / Signed

Codec ID : 1

Duration : 5 s 920 ms

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s

Channel(s) : 2 channels

Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz

Bit depth : 16 bits

Stream size : 1.08 MiB (0%)

Alignment : Aligned on interleaves

Interleave, duration : 1846 ms (46.16 video frames)

Interleave, preload duration : 40 ms

In addition I have attached below the analysis for the full .avi file uploaded as a single movie using Magix, which loses the sound when it gets to scene 8. However this is converted into .avi type 1 and the sound is corrupted with white noise and distorted high pitch voices. Though there is evidently sound there throughout the movie.

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name : DV
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 6.10 GiB
Duration : 30 min 15 s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 28.9 Mb/s

Video
ID : 0
Format : DV
Duration : 30 min 15 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357
Time code of first frame : 00:29:38:12
Time code source : Subcode time code
Stream size : 6.09 GiB (100%)
Encoding settings : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus

Audio
ID : 0-0
Format : PCM
Format settings : Big / Signed
Muxing mode : DV
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 30 min 15 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 332 MiB (5%)

I hope this helps.

AAProds wrote on 1/30/2023, 5:50 PM

@JeffB2310

Jeff, can you confirm, when you play the tape in the problematic area, that you have sound coming from the camera's speaker? I know you said earlier that you had sound in the Magix Preview but just wanted to check there is sound on the tape. If there is definitely sound on the tape that Magix and WinDV can't capture and the tape's important, then there are other options. such as trying a different camera or doing a recording of the audio with other software and matching it with the video you already have captured, or doing an analogue recording of the problem area.

Try Scenalyzer to capture the tape. While it ostensibly does what WinDV does, I have found I have trouble with WinDV sometimes whereas Scenealyzer is pretty good. It's a little more complex than WinDV but still quite easy to use.

I have put a guide on Google Drive here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/158O_LS9Lb2vqEOtLeVyRF0V5_P84aXGH/view?usp=share_link

CubeAce wrote on 1/30/2023, 6:15 PM

@AAProds @JeffB2310 @johnebaker

Hi Al.

Please shoot me down in flames if this is a stupid question or suggestion but if Jeff has plugged his monitor into the nvidia card would it be worth trying to plug the monitor into the Intel port?

I am also wondering if the program needs to use Direct X and neither the processor nor graphics card can use the version needed fully. Something is odd as the sound seems to have been stopped in the recording. Video: 4 min 33 s Sound: 5 s 920 ms

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 1/30/2023, 7:40 PM

I don't know, Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 1/30/2023, 8:20 PM

@AAProds @johnebaker @JeffB2310

I just did a small experiment with low volume settings so that the peak volume just hit the -20db warning mark but a some of the audio playing was below that. The result was anything below -20db got cut off completely.

However the file did not stop recording and was the same length as the video file. You may have to turn the volume up a bit.

Ray.

AAProds wrote on 1/31/2023, 12:36 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, there is no volume control for DV recording.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/31/2023, 2:00 AM

Thanks again. I will try and download Scenealyser and give this application a try.

Yes I can hear the sound on the camera and when I preview on the pc in Magix or WinDV.

Any thoughts on why neither app recognised the successive scenes/scene changes after scene 8 on the tape? It seems that the whole tape can be uploaded but only the first 8 scenes are saved as Takes. Clearly the two issues are connected somehow.

I don’t have another video camera to try as an alternative.

If I do need to try and save the sound file separately is there a further app that might achieve this without hopefully running into the same issues? I’d need to save the entire audio file as most of it is missing.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/31/2023, 2:02 AM

I have fully uploaded another MiniDV tape with no issue having arisen with the audio or scene detect

CubeAce wrote on 1/31/2023, 2:45 AM

@AAProds

There is no volume control within MS for recording from the app period, but Windows volume levels effect it and can be controlled from the windows Volume mixer to reduce volumes but not increase a very low volume that is prerecorded or baked into a file or external sound source. There is no auto gain function. So if a sound track from an external source doesn't reach that minus 20 db figure it could be cut off. I assume that is the function of the warning that appears when you set up the record section within MS.

Ray.

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/31/2023, 3:16 AM

Hi. Some success!!! I have used Scenalyser. If I run the capture from the start of the tape, it hits the same problem of the other apps in that it gets as far as scene 7 (in this case) and then stops capturing. However, if I try and start capturing from about scene 9 then the video and audio are both captured, although the scene detect function no longer work and presumably the rest of the tape would capture as one continuous movie, but at least with sound. Interestingly which might be significant in the information bar below the storyboard in Scenalyser it states errs:1. Assume this refers to an error in the capture. Not sure if it would be possible to track this down and either delete this section or fix. One step closer though thanks to your invaluable advice. Appreciated!

AAProds wrote on 1/31/2023, 4:26 AM

@JeffB2310

Jeff, good to hear. DV can be glitchy; I have had all sorts of trouble with some portions of DV recordings at times.

Provided you can capture after the glitch point, to the end of the tape, it is a simple matter to split up the tape into scenes; Scenalyzer might be able to do it (right-click on the clip>Clips>Detect Scenes). If that doesn't work due to messed-up time code, Movie Studio does a good job in detecting scenes.

You'll be able to insert the scenes from the later recordings (after the glitch point) into sequence with 1-7 when editing your movie.

@CubeAce

Ray, Occam's Razor. 😉

CubeAce wrote on 1/31/2023, 5:48 AM

@AAProds

Al, Where Magix is concerned I prefer Murphy's Law 🤣

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/31/2023, 12:31 PM

Fab. Will give this a try. Jeff

JeffB2310 wrote on 1/31/2023, 12:38 PM

Sorry just one related query. If I use WinDV or Scenaylser to capture footage and split this into scenes, for adding to movie within Magix, would I experience any loss in quality compared to uploading using Magix itself?