Deinterlacing old footage VHS Lagarith with good results possible?

Beardeboss wrote on 3/30/2024, 12:21 PM

Just wondering what is ths best work load for dealing with LAGS AVI PAL 25i captured via Hauppauge usb-live2 via AmTV Rec. Normally I have been using Virtual Dub 2 and deinterlacing via double rate top field first and outputing to 50p the encoding to X264 around CRF 18 to 20. Whilst this is a good job I prefer to use Magix now to do the job since I prefer the much nice interface. I was looking if there is a good workflow to do the same 50p from out of VPX. Currently I am importing the LAG AVI file the selecting Top Field First and 5.4 Aspect Ratio. The exporting as 25p but the quality is not as good as the VD output. I was thinking about whether the interpolation option was going to add anything to the mix? Yes I know that you will probably say all work needs to be done in VD output to Lossless AVI Codec again then back in to VPX. I actually have both MEP and VPX but for all things aside I think that the options are the same.

Comments

AAProds wrote on 3/30/2024, 8:04 PM

Unfortunately, MMS (and I assume, VPX) has two major limitations processing analogue video captures:

1. The latest versions do not process the import properly. While they display the video in it's 5:4 raw form, that cannot be changed in Video Properties to 4:3 (it's correct display aspect) unless one types in "1.33", which isn't quite technically correct (should be 1.333 recurring).

2. The second issue is deinterlacing. I think I have a decent understanding of deinterlacing (mainly from my experience with VDub) but will admit I have no idea what Magix now does with this. There are now only three options in Video Properties, none of which include any proper deinterlacing techniques such as blend, double-rate as far as I can see. I don't

How the program deals with deinterlacing, and the options available, are a complete mystery to me.

To get around those two issues, my workflow is to capture with AmarecTV, deinterlace to double rate in VDub (I actually mostly use QTGMC but DR using VDub's filter is good) and then export 768x576 (PAL) in AVI (MagicYUV preferred to prevent frame salad, although LAGS is Ok on my latest computer). I then edit and export out of Magix.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 3/31/2024, 6:47 AM

@Beardeboss

Hi

Assuming you mean the Interpolate intermediate images option in the Speed effect or video object properties

Both are the same setting.

As @AAProds has commented, deinterlacing is the big issue.

How well the Interpolation option works depends on the motion/movement or pan speed that is in the source video.

For relatively slow motion, it can be effective in reducing combing.

It is going to be a case of try it and see, also try doubling the frame rate on export.

John EB
Forum Moderator

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Beardeboss wrote on 3/31/2024, 1:08 PM

Yes I appreciate the comments guys. I was going through VD2 with the LAGS AVI then doing a crop away black bars head switching noise fuzzy edges. Normally I crop away the fuzzy edges the use the add borders in black and re centre the cropepd frame back to 720x576 as I prefer to keep the borders black. I know that some people like to have no black borders around the edges of the frame and sometimes I do just that but since most times the video is to be watched on a regular LCD led screen then also since most have already abit of over scan by default albeit alot less than the 10% of the old cathode ray sets I find most have a slight over scan of 2 to 3% the adding back clean black borders ensures that nothing is cut from the original frame. I actually don't mind the black frame borders and in my own way I guess it keeps the frame at it's original size as captured 720x576. Any way back to the workflow I was explaining..

Hauppauge usb-live2 capture to LAGS via Panasonic Svhs SV121 TBC AND 3D Noise Reduction on. Then fetch AVI into VD2.

Deinterlace double frame rate TFF. Next Neat Video for noise then Crop frame then add borders back 720x576 centre video in frame then it is ready to export. Of course as I can trim the video also in VD an export as x264. As said this is what I do for quick edits but since I prefer the interface and using Magix to edit since it is a better option for editing in particular for fading in and out adding transitions Titles etc then I was trying to arrange a suitable way I could possibly do it all in magix. Yes so yes in the past I have also used Davinci resolve free addition to process DV AVI codec files and liked the way it automatically detects the 25fps PAL interlaced file and by default doubles to 50p in the same kind of thing that vd2 deinterlace filter does. It would be great if that was how magix proceeded with the same files. However the thing is that Davinci doesn't work with LAGS AVI and the only other option is to use MagicYUV bought codec which is fairly priced and I think that is work it if needed but even so it only then works (the magicyuv plugin) with the paid studio version of Davinci resolve the I am not sure is work forking out more money when both the magix editors import lags and also a lot more codecs than Davinci and also have a lot of other features that I find useful. I find that the magix editors do a lot and it is possible to purchase them both for less than a Davinci resolve licence especially when there are offers on. Yes I am going to experiment with the settings interpol. Never thought about looking at the speed control option to see if this improved things. Yes would be good to do some tests see what goes. As said the whole interlaced handling thing is kinda unknown as to what is happening underneath the hood I the magix editors. Would be nice to know from the hq at magix as to what they do

Can-Dive wrote on 3/31/2024, 7:26 PM

Hi @Beardeboss,

@AAProds mentioned that he mainly deinterlaces using QTGMC. I found this video which compares YADIF to QTGMC. I thought it was impressive and perhaps @Beardeboss, it may be a consideration for your workflow.

The person who made the video indicated that he uses a program called Hybrid. I am not familiar with Hybrid but its something to investigate. Perhaps @AAProds has looked into it and even uses it?

https://www.selur.de/downloads

BTW, both of you intend to capture using AmarecTV. I'm curious as to why this capture program over say VDub?

 

 

AAProds wrote on 3/31/2024, 8:22 PM

@Can-Dive @Beardeboss

Hybrid can indeed use QTGMC to deinterlace. It's an "interesting" GUI and I had a crack at it but at the time (before my new computer), it didn't have a suitable output codec that I could import directly, successfully, into Magix; i got stuck with the frame salad badly. I also found myself still going via VDub for specific filters (eg Colormill and Chromashift [for moving the reds back into line]) so I have not used Hybrid for some time.

I taught myself how to use QTGMC so now just use it to deinterlace my captured files via VDub.

Staxrip is another GUI that will run QTGMC but I haven't tried it.

I found VDub to be overly complicated and have had audio sync issues with it. AmarecTV is simple and it just works.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12