@clement5 @CubeAce 

1, 'HD 1920x1080 video at 23.976 (24000/1001) fps crash' ? that tells nothing, "any attempts to "encode in directory" can you explain this?

2, I tried 2 IEEE options, Wave (Microsoft) & Sony Wave, Wave (Microsoft) loads into MEP Sony doesn't, so 'MEP does not decode the IEEE float audio codec' is a bit random without more specification,

3. I haven't had any problems with projects not saving,

4.  'Incorrect magnification for setting background', Yes on m 34" 4k screen they are a bit small but on my 24" they're fine, this could be looked into, this problem persists in many programs, but as @CubeAce says you haven't given any of your system or monitor specs,

5.  'Use Current terminology' 'directory" should be changed to "folder"' , I think your splitting hairs,

If your going to be sending this in maybe you should refine it & inc the needed info, I couldn't be bothered reading first time i looked & prob why this is only the second reply you've got.

@clement5

Hi

In addition to @CubeAce comment

Taking your points:

1. Is there a reason for Encoding in Directory? This option is a halfway step to burning ad DVD or BD disc, encoding all the files required for the DVD/BD in a folder , however it will not go on to the next step of creating an ISO file, if Image Recorder was selected, or the final disc.
   
   As the crash also occurs when exporting MP4 this is often caused by a video/image/audio object or transition which which is causing the encoder to trip, an Error -5 message will be placed in the log file.
    
2. As @CubeAce has commented and which I agree with
    
3. When you change a parameter/setting in the export or burn dialogs and then do not export, burn a disc or create the files with the option in point 1, on exiting the program the change made is detected and asks if you want to save the project. If you do not save the project then the changes made are not saved.
    
4. This is a bug - please raise a Support ticket - link at top of page and follow this article to navigate through the support system.
    
5. Depending on your global location, Directory and Folder are both valid name identifiers and are used interchangeably.

John EB
Forum Moderator

@Former user

Hi Gid.

A Sony Wave or wav file may have a Digital Rights Management code embedded into it before a copy of the file can be edited. It may play normally but MEP will pick upon any DRM coding within a file and will not play any form of DRM encoded file.

It is also possible to put DRM into any Microsoft wav file if you have the capacity to do so. I used to be able to do that when I could use my TeraTec sound card.

The only reason for using a 32 bit audio file is when recording live. It prevents clipping and the need to keep a close eye on levels. With a noise floor of 1528 dB it surpasses any sound that can be make on earth which would have a maximum dynamic range of 210 dB. That is purely theoretical as anyone listening to a volume of 190dB would probably be dead at that listening level. Ear drums burst at around 140dB. Most microphones have a capture range of around 96dB although the sound pressure levels to power them can vary depending on their intended use.

Ray.

@CubeAce 👍 I did have to Google IEEE & read about the db levels, the Wave (Microsoft) & Sony Wave i created with Vegas but it's all a bit beyond me, i don't use anything but the default audio that comes with the video format, but this OP seemed to be lacking in so much detail that i had to look it up & try the things mentioned, & i'm always up for a bit of learning, 👍

I read this, clear as mud 🙃🙃🤷‍♂️🤸‍♂️🤸‍♂️😂 https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/

Support has finally acknowledged my inquiry.

1. While folder and directory are generally used interchangeably, there are many people who do not know this. Folder has become the common word used in "applications" so directory has now become the computer professional word, and folder the common user word which appears in user manuals and help. So, to make MEP more user friendly they should use the common word. It is possible that folder will become obsolete when nobody uses paper folders anymore, but older people still often use them along with paper calendars.

2. MEP used to decode the IEEE format, but when I reinstalled it after a crash and full system restore it no longer does that. The problem is that another program (VirtualDub2) created the video file from a PAL file without DRM. I worked around by using another program to convert the IEEE format to standard old wave. Eventually I will get VD2 fixed so it can output the old standard WAV files.

3. As to putting the output into a "folder", it works just fine for standard NTSC, which is then telecined to 29.97. I want to produce a Blu-Ray without any built in judder. MEP has had many problems with 23.976fps in the past. Why put it into a folder, why not? I select the folder I want.

4. I looked at my settings, and they indicate I should be receiving mail from replies, but they are lost in the WOM (Write only memory). I have saved the options (parameters) before exiting, and they do NOT return. This has been a perennial problem with MEP.

Support gave me info to be able to download the IEEE codec. It consisted of Help/Install Extra Content and then select the codec I need, but the extra content was just the design stuff that came with my version of MEP.. As to confusion, I supplied test files in the OneDrive box, so anyone can test my assertions. If there is a hardware problem, it is not evident in other programs, and I have run the test program several times after the crash. Apparently, the problem with the IEEE audio is happening to others as they had sent me a link to a form where I could click yes or no if their fix did not work.

Hallelujah! For some reason I am now getting the replies from my posts, but I haven't changed a thing! I guess it was Black Magix. After thinking about the problem with 23.976fps, you should know that Magix had problems with it before. When exporting at that bit rate they had the wrong frame rate, which was unobvious because often that is quoted as 23.98. Looking at the integer rate it was not 24000/1001, but some other number that I do not remember. Finally they have fixed it, I think, after acknowledging the problem. I have not run an exhaustive test on it yet.

@clement5

Hi

The folder/directory 'issue' is a matter of semantics.

. . . . nobody uses paper folders . . . . correct - they are plastic now.

. . . . which is then telecined to 29.97. I want to produce a Blu-Ray without any built in judder. . . . .

So the process you are using to go from a PAL file to Blu-ray disc, is via converting the framerate through 2 conversions ie PAL 25 fps → 24fps → 29.97fps NTSC and 2 re-encodes

. . . . I have saved the options (parameters) before exiting . . . .

Assuming you are referring to the parameters in the encoding presets of the burn dialog, they are not saved - the presets always revert back to the standards formats/settings - this is normal and not an issue.

You can change the parameters and then save them as a custom Preset for the encoding section of the burn dialogs as seen in the image below

I also have several presets for exporting to MP4/AVCHD video file as shown below.

Make the changes you require then click the Save icon, name the preset, do not change the location of the preset, and save .

John EB

@Former user

Hi

. . . . Yes on m 34" 4k screen they are a bit small but on my 24" they're fine, this could be looked into . . . .

From @clement5 description, I believe he is referring to the bug shown in the image below - the left image is what you see when you first select a frame from the current movie, the right is what you see when you go back to the same dialog again in the disc menu editor

John EB

@Former user

Hi Gid.

That is as good an explanation as you will probably get on that link Gid.

If you consider that a 3dB increase is a doubling in volume (assuming power increase is a linear proportion to speaker cone movement) but a 10dB increase is needed to 'hear' the doubling effect (age dependent and air displacement dependent) then you begin to realise how silly bit depth can get in audio. I don't have a dedicated sound card any more as the S1220A sound chip on my ASUS motherboard already exceeds the capability of any of my power amp and speaker combinations and a noise floor way below that of the amps I use at 113dB for the inputs and 120dB for the output. It also supports 192kHz 32 bit playback.

MEP on the other hand is limited to outputting 16 bit and 48kHz at the most using whatever codec is now available within the program.

VPX can do better with wmv files allowing for a 96kHz 24 bit audio export whereas MEP is limited to 48kHz 16 bit using wmv.

At the end of the day though the audio will only ever be as good as the weakest link in the chain. For most people that would be either their microphone or their DA/AD convertors or the components (unless they are buying in higher quality samples) in the final listening setup. Speakers /headphones/ amps etc. None of which on my system exceeds 97dB as a noise floor, which quite frankly is too loud. I probably monitor at levels way below that. Say 15 to 20% of full rated volume before clipping.

Sampling frequency is much more important than bit depth for perceived quality as that allows for much more detailed recording of the shape of the audio wave and even then you need a premium DAC set to not get into trouble. I'm not even sure my ears are up to telling the difference any more at that level of performance.

Yes there can be audible differences when using higher bit depths and sampling rates within a DAW or Video editing program, but equally good recordings can be made with better components in the chain at lower bit rates and sampling levels. They will always win out over trying to record information that was never there in the first place.

[Edit]

One thing a lot of people don't realize is not to turn down the volume of the computers audio output when plugged into an external amplifier. That should be so the input stage of the amplifier is getting the maximum signal to noise ratio into its first stage if it has a line input that can then be controlled.

Ray.

The conversion from PAL to NTSC 23.976 can be done in just one pass using VirtualDub2, and the result was a playable AVI file. I always use Lagarith for intermediate steps to avoid multiple reconversions between lossy codecs, as fixing old movies often requires multiple passes.

OK, so the bug in the disk burning background menu has been confirmed. This has been there through many iterations of MEP and is just a sign of careless quality checking. The small slider and window is also a problem, but is often a problem in other programs.

As to the burning options not being saved, some have been saved as a program option and are the same across all projects, but others are not. There is also a problem that I complained about in the past that when setting burning or export options, going to an advanced menu reset unrelated options on the previous front menu. But this happened for some output codecs, but not for others. Again, very inconsistent careless coding. In particular with respect to saving options, I manually set the bit rate so as to not exceed the capacity of a 25G blu-ray with the 23.976 output. When I came back the same bit rate was still set, but the output had been reset to 29.97 (Default)????? Why go back to 29.97 when the input is 23.976 standard NTSC?????? I have wasted more time and discs by not noticing the squirrely inconsistent saving or not of options.

In the past when burning an NTSC dvd the code set the telecine parameters incorrectly to progressive or top field first. I am sure that the users in the NTSC zones never noticed this, as they only concentrated on getting a DVD. They didn't notice how the result was smeared or had more obvious judder. I think they still haven't gotten it quite right. I notice things like this because I restore old movies which have to be detelecined first before fixing things. The developers of course are in a PAL region, so they have less concern with NTSC standards or common practices.

BTW the audio quality on my restorations is generally not a big issue as the originals have huge amounts of noise with limited audio range and various distortions. As to the superior quality of 48kHz, lots of music is now limited to 15kHz because of MP3s and the quality of on air broadcasts. Only a very small minority of people can hear anything up to 20kHz and my friend who could hear the "silent" alarms in stores, now has hearing aids. In the past most people didn't notice the 15kHz flyback whistle generated by the old TVs. I could, but just tuned it out. In either case at my age, I am just happy that my new hearing aids have improved music and gotten rid of the tremolo my old aids had on sustained piano notes. The shape of wave forms is highly dependent on the phase shift vs frequency and that factor is highly debated. In either case speakers produce huge phase shifts, except for a few phase coherent ones like Ohm Walsh drivers.