Hi John,

Many thanks for that extremely thorough and helpful reply. Lots to challenge him about. 

Any particular recommendations for a graphics card, assuming I do get one at the outset?

I gave him my suggested spec including one or two Samsung EVO SSD cards, so was very surprised he chose Sandisk X400.

I also asked him to look at this as a good starting point.

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/hd-video-editing-workstation-intel-core-i7-pc-pro-recommended/default

Hi Terry

. . . Any particular recommendations for a graphics card . . .

Personally I would use the Intel integrated, however I would suggest we wait for Peter and/or Jeff to chip in on this topic - one of them (sorry guys I have forgotten who) has added an AMD card to their new system to solve issues  - can't find the topic at the minute.

On the spec you received today - it looks very much like one of the systems from a well known gaming PC  online store, beefed up with SSD drives.

The Scan system looks good, the only question I would have is the GTX 960 and HWA in MEP.

. . . assuming I do get one at the outset? . . . .

This is a good point - I would try the Intel first and then if necessary add a card.

Cheers

John EB

Hi Terry

The German forum senior members often direct people to this company in Dresden who build several versions of a "Magix" Editing PC:- https://www.winner-dresden.de/c20/videoschnitt-pcs although they do not appear to have a build with the 6th Gen Intels at present.

CPU cooler - the 6700K does not come with a stock cooler and I would go with the Tower Cooler option. It is good to have it there when you are doing a HW render especially if you are going with an overclock which is easy to set up with the Asus Pro board. The Asus board comes with a utility called Ai Suite 3 which has a one shot overclock via Windows using a function called "5 way optimisation". youset a couple of preferances and hit go and it puts the system thru ever increasing increments to base clock speed and multiplier, plus voltage and RAM speed increases to the point where the system becomes unstable then reboots nocking the settings back a step or two. It also tests the fans capabilities and creates a set of 4 profiles for quiet through to exteme.

Very natty and quite straight forward. There is even a guy from Asus on YouTube that explains the steps. I have pushed my 6700K to 4.8Ghz using the extreme profile and the fans only ramp up when the CPU cores are running at 100% when analysing a clip with Mercalli V4 or doing a HW Export with the Intel GPU.

Radeon R7 370 graphics card - I think Jeff is running this card (or the 380) and is very satisfied with it.

Raided SSD's - Talk about overkill although there is some sense in the redundancy setup as John has stated. As for the speed advantage I stand by my comments earlier:-

Sorry but I have never seen any evidence which suggests there is any benefit to Magix MEP/VPX from having such high disc throughput available beyond even a 7200 rpm Sata3 HDD. I cannot do anything with my AVCHD 1080 50P projects that shows anymore than about 70MB/sec on any disc in Task manager and this is well within the 120 to 150MB/sec an average HDD can achieve. You would need to be working with uncompressed AVI's or professional formats like Pro Res 3.2K 4444 (about 700Mbits/sec =  a mere 87.5MBytes/sec) and multiple streams to take advantage of even an SSD, except for the instances I mentioned in my earlier reply and faster project loading and OS booting (which is faster in Win10 anyway).

The bottleneck with our compressed formats will always be the CPU along with the GPU's ability to accelerate (parallel process) effects and the compression / decompression required to preview them.

Further I have just run a couple of little tests:-

With 5 x 1080p 50fps clips (28Mbps each) playing a 5 PinP on the timeline from either the Sata HDD or the SSD I do not see any more than about 20MBytes/sec disc activity.

With a 1080p 50fps Uncompressed AVI (1250Mbps) on the timeline there is less than 100MBytes per sec activity when previewing. This same clips reads at 175MBytes/sec when playing in a Windows media player.

I believe the reason that the disk activity is low is because MEP is caching ie preloading the files in RAM once they are loaded in the project so the most activity you will see is on opening the project or scrolling quickly through the timeline.

It sounds like your man just came up with the hard drive config after he read the link you gave him. It is interesting that the Winner machines just have a Sata HDD for data and an SSD for the system drive.

My few cents.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks a bunch, that's terrific.

Much thinking to do now. I'm in no rush (although I read SSD prices might be going up rather than down in the nearish future!) so welcome any and all further suggestions.

Peter,

Could you say a bit more about what files you place on your Samsung 850 EVO 512GB SSD system disc and your WD Black 4TB HDD Video Storage please?

By 'system' do you mean the three folders \Windows, \Documents and Settings and \Program Files? (Or whatever they're called in Win 10.) If so, presumably you still have the bulk of the SSD available for data? What sort do you place on that, instead of your big HD?

The total space occupied on my XP PC's 750 GB C: drive by those three folders is about 105 GB, which I refer to broadly (with the registry) as my 'OS'. The other 650 GB of that HD is 'data' (and some empty space).
(One reason why making an 'image' - 'clone'? - has never been practical.)

--------------------

All,

I'm particularly interested to know where others put these:

Source material for projects. Especially videos. At present I keep most of my source videos (MOV) and photos (JPG) in C:\Docs\My Pictures\Photos. That has the advantage of convenience, as it all comes from an iPhone 6S+ at present, and gets imported chronologically onto my timeline. However my video content was relatively light a decade ago but is now a high proportion of total storage.

(BTW, I even leave photos and videos there after I've finished a project, but am seriously wondering if that makes sense, versus external HD and/or Cloud alternatives. The 'highlghts' after all are in the finished MP4s, VOBs and DVD discs.)

There are other video and still sources, of course, such as downloads and Google Earth captures, and those go straighht to the appropriate projects folder, like C:\Docs\My Videos\Projects\Marseille 2016.

Finished projects. I usually delete most of the countless files that end up in the project folder, including MVPs, but keep a 1920x1080 MP4. And on another HD I keep the matching DVD's VOBs.

With my new PC in mind (SSD plus HD plus external HDs) I'm pondering the optimum placement of these and would be interested in others' recommendations please.

Terry, not Peter, but I offer my set-up and file storage "system" for your consideration.

Running Win 10 on a pretty high-end machine, I have Windows and a few program files, basically those that "insist" on installing to C:\, on a 250GB SSD.  The majority of "Programs" are stored on a 500GB internal HDD.  I have a further 1TB internal HDD, partitioned into three, which stores "Temporary Video Files" (for on-going work, usually), audio files, and a general "data store".

I also have 3 external USB drives permanently connected.  1 of 1.5 TB is where I store the majority of video files, DVD/BD images, music files (for video), all sorts of video files which I have downloaded over the years, etc., etc., etc.  A second USB is a 500GB used again simply for general data.  The third is a 3TB USB 3 drive which functions as an "on-site" back-up to most of the other drives.  I also have an external "cloud" back-up service constantly running.

I'm not suggesting all this as an "ideal model" but it certainly works for me!  BTW, I don't retain the raw video files once a project is completed; as you say, that would rapidly become a serious storage problem.  But, as suggested earlier, I do keep the DVD Image files permanently.  (In the worst case scenario, if a later re-edit may be needed I can simply open the vob files in VPX, make the alterations and then use SmartRender to re-export, with minimal quality loss).

You also asked about dedicated graphics cards versus the built-in capabilities of the processor you list; it's the same one I have so I can speak from experience.  When I first bought/built this machine I did use the on-board graphics but discovered that the picture would often break-up/become distorted/even disappear completely.  The AMD Radeon R7 360 which I now use was a "reasonable" price and has solved the video problem, so I'm happy!!

Jeff

Hi Terry

The point I have been making in recent replies is that I can find no advantage to MEP (preview smoothness, render/export speed) from having raw footage on the SSD so I place all those (which are the space hogs) on the 4TB WD Black. Everything else photos, audio HO and HDP files, project MVP, and all Windows (incl. page file) and program files stay where the default installs them on the C:\ drive which is the SSD. As I mentioned previously, I am keeping this new PC as clean as possible so I am continuing to run my old Vista PC for day to day crap so space on the SSD will never become an issue. This also means disc images remain compact and can be created fairly quickly and regularly.

I render my exports to the same folder I create for the imported Raw camera files on the 4TB and this does not create any export speed bottle necks. 

My back up system has been stated in your earlier posts and I keep and back up all of my Raw files on External Drives so I have 2 copies of everything. I have thought about cloud back up but I am not sure it would be practical with such a large amount of data.

Hi Jeff

You didn't reply to my questions in earlier threads about the discreet video card. Did you observe the problems I had using just the Intel GPU with the HDR effect in MEP/VPX, where the picture turned very dark as soon as it was applied, and did the installing of the Radeon card fix this?  I presume the card can use DX12.1 which seems to be related to this problem?

Also do the New blue effects > Auto Contast, RGB shift play more smoothly with the addition of the discreet card?

Thanks

Peter

Hi Terry

Just to chip in here, whereas Peter keeps, photos, audio HO and HDP files, project MVP, and all Windows (incl. page file) and program files  on the C:\ drive and raw data on a second HD, I keep things even more seperated.

Windows and software only on the C: drive, all other files are on a second internal HD. 

Good backups are essential, if the second HD did go down I can replace it in a few minutes with one of the duplicate backup drive from one of my external USB backup drives and be up and running quickly.

I did try moving the Windows page file to an SSD, however there was no discernable gain from doing this.

HTH

John EB

Hi Jeff

You didn't reply to my questions in earlier threads about the discreet video card. Did you observe the problems I had using just the Intel GPU with the HDR effect in MEP/VPX, where the picture turned very dark as soon as it was applied, and did the installing of the Radeon card fix this?  I presume the card can use DX12.1 which seems to be related to this problem?

Also do the New blue effects > Auto Contast, RGB shift play more smoothly with the addition of the discreet card?

Thanks

Peter

Sorry Peter, have just had a week away in Mallorca so am a little "out-of-sync" with the forum!

I will try and check later today the specifics of the questions you asked.  Given my earlier problems with the built-in Intel graphics AND the fact that VPX (8) gave me all sorts of problems following an earlier Windows update, I had no opportunity to check the HDR and NB fx before installing the Radeon card, so won't be able to comment on whether it has improved things in these two specific areas.

Will report back later.

Jeff

Edit, to Update:  I have now tested HDR and I certainly don't see any darkening of the video at all, so I would guess, as you surmise, the card can correctly handle this effect.

Not sure what you mean about the NB fx playing"more smoothly"?  Certainly, the RGB shift produces a "shimmering" image (for want of a better term) but I think this is expected?  AutoContrast certainly works as I would expect.

HTH

Jeff, Peter, John,

Many thanks to you all for that further helpful feedback.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Thanks for testing Jeff although I am still a bit baffled as to what is causing the HDR problem as your card appears to support DX12 which is where Magix thought the issue might lay. It may be that they were saying that DX12 in combination with the Intel HD drivers caused the issue, which they were able to recreate.

The RGB shift effect is of course a shimmering effect in itself but I am getting dropped frame type stuttering during preview. Anyway I have got my PC builder to agree to trying a couple of Video cards in my rig in the next week or so to see what works and what doesn't.

Peter

Any DVD burner particularly recommended please? I'm looking at this one on Amazon UK. Any special points to consider, e.g. re region limitations, playing commercial discs, etc?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-BDR-209DBK-SATA-Internal-Burner/dp/B00H2GTXKS/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1464685130&sr=1-1&keywords=Pioneer+DVD+Blu-ray+Writer

Must say that this critical review of Windows 10 (by a previous XP user) leaves me less than enthusiastic about my own imminent forced 'upgrade'

It's headed "THERE IS ALWAYS A REASON WHY SOMETHING IS "FREE"...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Windows-Professional-32-bit-64-bit-Download/dp/B012U8YCLW/ref=sr_1_2?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1464686057&sr=1-2&keywords=Windows+10+Pro+OS

What's the consensus from others here?

Do you reckon Pro is worth the enormous price extra over Home? I instinctively thought Pro, as I have XP Pro and that has proved useful over the years, and also because I read that Win 10 Pro allows some  flexibility over when to install OS updates. But that price delta...

Edit: Scan Computers price = £110.40 ! Amazon are normally amongst the lowest priced.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/Scan-Win10-Price.jpg

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/hd-video-editing-workstation-intel-core-i7-pc-pro-recommended/default

And this at an incredible £19.99:

http://www.mrhightech.net/operating-systems/3554-windows-10-professional-0885370903911.html

Any DVD burner particularly recommended please? I'm looking at this one on Amazon UK. Any special points to consider, e.g. re region limitations, playing commercial discs, etc?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-BDR-209DBK-SATA-Internal-Burner/dp/B00H2GTXKS/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1464685130&sr=1-1&keywords=Pioneer+DVD+Blu-ray+Writer

Terry, that one seems fine to me.  Certainly, over the years I have used a number of Pioneer drives, without problem.

Jeff

Must say that this critical review of Windows 10 (by a previous XP user) leaves me less than enthusiastic about my own imminent forced 'upgrade'

It's headed "THERE IS ALWAYS A REASON WHY SOMETHING IS "FREE"...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Windows-Professional-32-bit-64-bit-Download/dp/B012U8YCLW/ref=sr_1_2?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1464686057&sr=1-2&keywords=Windows+10+Pro+OS

What's the consensus from others here?

Do you reckon Pro is worth the enormous price extra over Home? I instinctively thought Pro, as I have XP Pro and that has proved useful over the years, and also because I read that Win 10 Pro allows some  flexibility over when to install OS updates. But that price delta...

Edit: Scan Computers price = £110.40 ! Amazon are normally amongst the lowest priced.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/Scan-Win10-Price.jpg

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/hd-video-editing-workstation-intel-core-i7-pc-pro-recommended/default

And this at an incredible £19.99:

http://www.mrhightech.net/operating-systems/3554-windows-10-professional-0885370903911.html

Terry, yes the route from XP to Win 10 is not easy, or cheap.  BTW, that last link you gave, my AV/Firewall initially blocked as a suspicious site; certainly I would be more than a little suspicious of that price!

However, can i suggest you do what I did?  I had previously been running, and therefore had discs for Win7 Pro.  I did a "barebones" (OS only, nothing else) install of Win 7 and then immediately "upgraded" (for free to Win 10 Pro.  http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=win+7+professional&_frs=1 lists quite a number of Win 7 disc sellers, for pretty reasonable prices.  (As always, care advised when choosing your supplier).

HTH

Jeff

Hi Terry

Just about any BD burner from a known manufacturer eg LG, Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic etc will be fine - I have used all these makes in the past - they are probably all made in the same factory in China / Taiwan.

If you don't use printable discs, I would suggest getting one with LiteScribe - then you can write the title etc in momochrome directly onto a LightScribe disc instead of using messy labels.

. . . . Do you reckon Pro is worth the enormous price extra over Home? . . . .

Only if you need any of the feature differences - see here.

HTH

John EB

Jeff, John,

Thanks both.

Very interesting and attractive approach to installing Win 10!