Thank you Ray for that instructive reply. Yes I am aware the box is the fundamental power and Gid's is really strong for sure.

What you did in MEP is great too, 5 images at times. I liked the content too :-)

@1940

Hi

. . . . Is he correct? . . .

VPX is pro software however is less frequently used in the US.

Is Vegas better than VPX?

That is a matter off opinion, what you are used to, and what you want from the program.

I was a Vegas user many years ago and moved to MEP and now VPX because they are more versatile.

I would not go back to Vegas, it is limiting for the type of projects I do ie it has only one timeline (movie), I often have multiple timelines (movies) in a project.

I will tag in @browj2 , who posted a list of advantages for the Magix Movie Studio (MEP now rebranded) compared to the old Vegas Movie Studio which would apply in principle to VPX and Vegas pro

John EB

@1940

Hi.

For what you need there is possibly an easier method I will try to explain in your other Topic.

This project needed 13 tracks and would have been an extra 2 tracks had I done the head animation at the same time.

It also took some processing power but my system I would say is just below average for this type of work.

This was my workflow for each object on the timeline that was not the background.

Some video clips need additional adjustments when you change their size on the screen to reduce or increase contrast, colour, or possible moire, or to select a section within the video rather than the full screen and to place the image in the correct position within the frame. So each clip could be using up to 5 plugins.

Ray.

Thank you so much.

@1940 @CubeAce Hi, i didn't get a notification of this, basically Vegas will do more than VPX, you have more control over the finer points, the Boris third party plugins i have partly work in MEP (I don't have VPX) but work fully in Vegas, there's many more features with greater control in Vegas than VPX, I can't go into details but... Vegas is dated software, Sony let it lag, then sold it to Magix & the small team that now manage it are on a limited budget, they're basically patching it to keep it going, really it needs a rewrite, there's many features in other software like VPX that Vegas is behind on, such as there's no zoom on the preview window & the on screen controls of fx's is very small & dated so can be hard to use, Render/export times are slower, on my machine a 25min 4k project will take 20mins to render in Vegas, whereas in MEP it'll take half or less of that time, roughly 10mins-ish to export. Playback in Vegas has been noted many times as being poor, to get good playback @ full fps @ a decent res the media has to loop play a few times, the quality of the preview screen has to be reduced or prerender has to be applied, In MEP i find playback is many times better @ full res, media plays back instantly at full fps on the first play, even crossfades have no glitch & play fluidly, Some file formats won't play well in Vegas but other software like MEP have no problem with them, @johnebaker it depends what you mean by 'versatile', that could be as you suggest user dependant for the type of project you do, I would say you can pretty much do anything you want in Vegas (ignoring the dated software hold backs), it has nesting, basically that's like a composite shot that is in other software, & tracks can be grouped or Parent/Child connected,

@1940 I keep MEP up to date & use it for my simple YT vids, it's faster & more stable. Vegas crashes a lot, if you look on the Vegas forum a lot of the posts are complaints about 'WHY THE F*K IS THE CRAP SOFTWARE CRASHING ALL THE TIME' (excuse the language) , I use Vegas for my own entertainment as an effects editor but for reliability as i say i use MEP for my YT vids when i just want to get some work done without worry of losing it all, (Vegas has a Live Save option that saves the project after every edit, i have that switched on because it will crash at some point) MEP has an option to save every few minutes whatever you set it at, but i don't think about that when using MEP, crashing rarely occurs, As far as hardware is concerned, Vegas doesn't use my GPU very well but MEP uses it to it's fullest, hence the better playback & export times, different GPU's perform better than others & the most powerful like mine don't come top of the list as far as performance is concerned, & yes there's a learning curve to Vegas, I've had MEP since 2004, Vegas is similar to MEP as far as the basic timeline is concerned but after 2yrs now i've still got a fair amount to learn.

@Former user

Hi Gid.

Your avatar is impossible to activate until you make a comment within a given topic thread. I assumed you would at least read this post at some point. 🤞 You are one of the few here that use both programs so your insights I think are more relevant.

When you look at video editing forums in general, constant complaints about program crashes are on the top of most of such forums lists. VPX, and MEP along with Edius and Adobe seem the most stable video editing platforms I see with least complaints as a percentage of users. A lot of crashes are down to either machine specs are not powerful enough to run the programs at the resolutions people are trying to edit at as they just look at the minimum specs and think they will be alright, not realising the minimum specs only cover the base program at resolutions not exceeding HD resolutions or just plain user error.

Ray.

@CubeAce Thanks dunno why my @ avatar link doesn't work 👍 Yep, I don't think people read the minimum specs or don't understand it, when i read the complaints in Vegas forum & they quote their system specs, I find it hard not to laugh 'You're trying to do that in 4k on that 2012 laptop with 8GB RAM & no GPU 🤣' but saying that, last night i was playing with the collage thing that's in the other post, Vegas crashed a few times with a simple 4-5 track project,

@Former user

Japanese camera companies were never really into the software side of things. They were manufacturers, not so much software coders. Sony at least tried but probably didn't give that department enough resources or cash to innovate over time beyond getting it to chop video up and colour grade it. Nikon was as bad with their stills camera support and Fuji outsourced it. Only Canon gave the subject a little more respect but even they are behind in their offerings and were protective over their own innovations so tried hard to make their own software incompatible with other cameras. I think the Magix interest in Vegas was purely down to the brand name like BMW acquiring Mini. Vegas was the first serious bit of software for video editing and had a hard core of followers.

I don't think it is just the software though but the hardware itself. Look at how much easier Apple products handle video without the need for power hungry GPUs.

Intel Arc may become the answer for the PC in the future. Not so good for gaming but for video things look a lot better. On the surface specs at least. We will see in the coming months as reviews get onto the net. Assuming the software companies can make use of them.

Ray.

@CubeAce, @Former user

Hi Ray, Gid

. . . . Your avatar is impossible to activate until you make a comment within a given topic thread . . . .

Not quite, it is true someone who has not posted in a topic will not be notified or appear in the list, unless the person is tagged in the topic ie: type the @ then continue typing the name of the user, eg if I wanted to tag John CB (browj2) into this topic I would start typing his username

as you can see I have not completed John's username however he has popped up in the user list.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

That is true for everyone's avatar on the forum for me except for Gids.

Ray.

@1940

Hi Oz,

I don't have a lot of time, but...

There is no such thing as "Pro" software or a "Pro" video editing program. A program cannot be professional. I am a Professional Engineer; the software that I use is not the professional, I am.

Here is a listing of some of the great things about VPX.

Here is a listing on the Vegas forum of things that VPX does that may not be in Vegas or are done differently, along with a few similar features.

@Former user has indicated that:

...basically Vegas will do more than VPX, you have more control over the finer points...

Here I somewhat disagree. Vegas can do some things that VPX does not (not necessarily cannot) and yes, there are some things Vegas that allow finer control than in VPX, but if you don't even use what is in VPX, there is no sense in getting a program that does even more of what you don't use. Vegas has better compositing tools than VPX, but most of what it does can be done in VPX, just differently and often easier.

@Former user mentioned "nesting" in Vegas. It's actually a workaround; you bring in an external project as an object (event in Vegas parlance) onto the timeline. If you need to modify this object, then you have to open the other project separately. In VPX, you have multiple timelines, Movies, and bring in one Movie from the same project into the other or main Movie, as an object. If you need to modify that object, just switch to its Movie and modify it. The associated object will be updated automatically. The nested object can itself have effects added.

Further on that line, you can import another Project or Movie (if the Movie was exported) into an open project. It just adds one or more Movies to your open Project. You can use that however you want; the original external project is never touched. Cannot be done in Vegas; no multiple timelines.

Vegas has better meters with adjustments than VPX, but have you ever even used the meters in VPX?

@CubeAce mentioned:

What VPX is not unless you wish to buy additional plugins is a visual effects editor such as come with the Vegas programs.

That is not really accurate. The visual effects editor is actually a version of HitFilm and you need to purchase Vegas Post to get this. The image editor that is in Post, Vegas Image, is an external image editor from the same company as HitFilm, FXHome called Imerge; it has been described as a blend of PhotoShop and Lightroom by some, I believe. Other than that, you have to get external plugins, the same as with VPX. One advantage that Vegas has over VPX is in the quantity of OFX plugins that are available. I don't even use a tenth of the plugins that I have.

EDIT: Another advantage of Vegas is availability of a plugin for SonicFire SmartSound. I use the standalone program but a plugin for VPX would be nice for the few SmartSound songs that I have.

I showed in the video with your other post about how simple it is to make overlays. The Size/Position effect is usually done right on the Preview Monitor. I have monitored threads on the Vegas forum, and each time someone wants to do overlays or PiP, it seems to be a major undertaking.

So, Vegas has some tools with greater adjustment than VPX, but effects with keyframes in VPX can be adjusted on the timeline using Bézier curves. This is a long-requested feature by Vegas users and they still don't have it. A program for professionals should at least have this.

Further on this point, let's look at what you get with VPX (and even MEP):

• The Editing program
• Music Editor 3 (audio editor)
• PhotoDesigner (photo editor and graphics designer)
• 3DMaker (3D title design, full program)
• Travel Maps
• Soundtrack Maker
• Slideshow Maker with music (Vegas has no music)
• BPM Wizard
• DVD/BR editor/creator/burner
• Xara Xtreme for creating DVD/BR labels and jackets
• Samplitude Audio Engine
• Create Panorama ( I don't know if Vegas has such a thing) - create panorama with up to 6 images
• Music and audio files, collages, movie templates and many more templates with content.

Here is what you get with Vegas:

• The Editing program

Here is what you get with Vegas Post: EDIT: I see that I missed two items

• The Editing program
• Vegas Effects (external interface opened from within Vegas - actually HitFilm from FXHome)
• Vegas Image (external photo editor - Imerge from FXHome)
• Sound Forge Audio Studio
• Vegas Stream (gimick - we're editing video, not streaming it)
• Boris FX Primatte Studio - green/blue screen high-end effects, not available for VPX.

That's it.

So, you get a lot more than Vegas with just VPX14.

For fun, let's upgrade VPX to my idea of VPX Post:

• The Editing program
• Get BluffTitler and you'll be in league with Hitfilm and Adobe After Effects, or just get HitFilm, or just get more plugins from HitFilm and New Blue
• Change ME3 to Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab (much better than Sound Forge Audio Studio, IMHO). SFACL has spectral cleaning and much more.
• Change PhotoDesigner (external image edtior) to Xara Photo & Graphics Designer or Xara Designer Pro X, OR, get Corel PaintShop Pro and you have the equivalent or close to Vegas Image (Imerge).

I have Xara Designer Pro X and it works with VPX to open the video in Xara and allows you to create static and animated graphical overlays and masks (It is currently buggy but works with workarounds). There is no equivalent possibility with Vegas, none, not even close. Xara is not a very good bitmap editor but is an excellent graphics design program and I use it a lot. As well, I have PaintShop. I use either Xara or PaintShop Pro as my external image editor, but PaintShop Pro is also my external bitmap editor for Xara, so I can go from VPX to Xara to Paintshop Pro, fix up a photo, and go back to the timeline.

With Xara, you get Magix PanoramaStudio which allows you to use more than 6 images to create a panorama. This is the upgrade mentioned in VPX under "More possibilities" if you open Create Panorama.

Another possibility for those more musically inclined, is Samplitude Pro X Suite as the external audio editor. Suite includes the Cleaning and Restoration tools that are more sophisticated than Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab. As well, if one purchases Samplitude Pro X Suite, one would likely get SpectraLayers. Now you would have the Roll Royce. Samplitude works from the timeline as the external audio editor. However, if you can't even master Music Editor 3, there is no sense in upgrading these features.

In the other thread, I showed how to create a collage, nesting, create transitions on nested objects, create multi-image video windows, etc. Some of these I consider to be basic tools. If you have not used the built-in effects tools, then you are missing out on much of what the program has to offer.

Enough said?

John CB

 

So, Vegas has some tools with greater adjustment than VPX, but effects with keyframes in VPX can be adjusted on the timeline using Bézier curves. This is a long-requested feature by Vegas users and they still don't have it. A program for professionals should at least have this.

 

Vegas keyframe Bezier curves

' "nesting" in Vegas. It's actually a workaround; you bring in an external project as an object (event in Vegas parlance) onto the timeline. If you need to modify this object, then you have to open the other project separately'

Nesting in Vegas you select an event or a selection of events - Create Nested Timeline, you can switch from one nested selection to another as easy as switching movies in MEP/VPX, effects can be added to the nested timeline, one button returns you to the main timeline where the effect is immediately updated/added. there's no opening of projects separately,

No multiple timelines/movies can't be created but multiple Vegas's can be opened & events can be copied & pasted from one to the other, it's just a click on the Taskbar to open one or the other instead of a click on the timeline movie tabs in Magix.,

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . That is true for everyone's avatar on the forum for me except for Gids. . . . .

You are correct. I wonder why, AFAICS there is no user setting that would do that.

John EB

@Former user

Vegas keyframe Bezier curves

Is that new in Vegas 19? I have seen many threads about the lack of Bézier curves on the Vegas forum, like this one. What am I missing here?

John CB

@Former user

Hi Gid

. . . . Vegas keyframe Bezier curves . . . .

The example you have given is a Boris FX effect - are the Bezier curve adjustments not part of that effect?

Are Bezier curves available for a native Vegas effect eg the equivalent of Size & Position?

John EB

The keyframe option is activated on the fx controls, (the circle turned red instead of blue) but the actual keyframes re in Vegas, this is Vegas's colour balance, i believe all fx's have a Bezier option for keyframes,

Pan/Crop & Track Motion still only have the basic keyframes

@browj2 Yes it's new 👍

To be honest i don't like them, i think it's a bit of a hatchet job to try keep people interested in Vegas, a poor attempt to keep it updated,

Here i have the keyframes, they're small & hard to control,

If i enlarge that keyframe window, without touching the keyframes or the Bezier handles, the ends of the handles (the balls on the end that you grab) go beyond reach, the keyframe has to be moved to bring them back on screen

@Former user

Hi Gid

Thanks for the images.

. . . . Yes it's new . . . .

It certainly is.

John EB

@Former user

Hi Gid,

Thanks for the clarification.

Is that a new type of high-tech mousetrap?

John CB

@johnebaker 👍

@browj2 The blue thing?

@Former user

Yes.