Hi John EB,

Thanks for confirming this. I will try again on my Surface Pro, but it seems to work there.

On my desktop, it gets worse. Wherever I have the arrow object below a text caption (Blue 2), as soon as I deleted the mirror effect on the arrow, the caption went upside down. Then I had another one where my background video went upside down. The arrow was ungrouped when it was inserted it and was never grouped again to anything.

It gets worse. Then, I went through, removed the mirror from all arrows, where there was text, I deleted the arrow and dragged a copy to the location, manually rotated the arrows or set the rotation in the box, got to the end, went to check, and most of the arrows were wrong. Upon checking, if I have 2 arrow objects, one with 179 degrees, the other with -179 degrees and I change the first one to 0 and then go and change the second to 0, the first one changes back to 179. I never had this before. This most frustrating. Changing the second and subsequent arrows seems to undo the previous command.

I changed the first arrow, restarted VPX, gave the second arrow a 0 rotation (from -179), and the first one went to -179. There was nothing in the undo cache. So, this is quite strange. I'll insert a new arrow and try again.

I just did and the new arrow took on the -179degree rotation upon insertion. I put one object below the other but with the arrows at different locations on the screen. I changed the new object to 0 rotation, clicked on the old object and the new object rotation changed back to -179 by itself.

I will copy the arrow to the project folder and use it instead of the one inserted from the Design/¨Present objects.

I recalled seeing this before but forgot. Using the rotation effect does strange things to the objects. Copy the arrow to a track below the first one. Move the arrow to be able to see both. Change the rotation of the first one. Change the rotation of the second to something different. Click on the first one. Click on the second one and tt may have changed back. Keep trying.

I just did it again, and it doesn't do it anymore. Most frustrating.

In any event, I found that setting a rotation followed by clicking on another effect, like Size/Position, selecting the next object, clicking on rotation and setting it, then Size/Position, next or previous object, does not seem to cause the objects to change rotation by themselves. Strange things happen with rotation, I find.

Hi John CB

. . . . Wherever I have the arrow object below a text caption (Blue 2), as soon as I deleted the mirror effect on the arrow, the caption went upside down. . . . .

What is the sequence in which you did this? I cannot replicate it.

. . . . Then I had another one where my background video went upside down . . .

Again what was the sequence leading up to this?

. . . . Upon checking, if I have 2 arrow objects, one with 179 degrees, the other with -179 degrees and I change the first one to 0 and then go and change the second to 0, the first one changes back to 179. . . . .

Agreed - this I can replicate.

. . . . Change the rotation of the first one. Change the rotation of the second to something different. Click on the first one. . . . .

Agreed - arrow 1 changes as soon as I click back on it - also it does not matter which arrow you take as being no.1 - either way as soon as you click back on 1 it changes.

Can you try these - I will continue the test numbering from the previous sequence

Test 5

1. Add 2 image objects to the timeline one after the other
2. Attach a different arrow to each one eg arrow 9 and 10
3. Resize and rotate each arrow and click between them

Result: Nothing should happen.

Test 6

1. Reset the effects on the images removing the arrows
2. Attach a different arrow to each one eg arrow 9 and 10
3. Ungroup each arrow from its image
4. Resize and rotate each arrow and click between them

One of the arrows will reset or go to the same rotation as the other.

This is what I think is happening:

The arrow image effect, or any of the image object effects, is not intended to be ungrouped from the object it is applied to.

When an image effect is attached to an object it does not have an individual object reference point, ie the data in the MVP says 'this video object ( or image object, or title object), has this effect attached and is the effect is set to this size, position and rotation'.

When you ungroup the effect there is no reference point to which the effect is attached, the same goes for the copies. MEP then does not know which is being referenced, it only knows there are, for example, 2 image effects (arrows or any of them) so it changes the previous one as soon as you select a new one.

Hope this makes sense!

If I want multiple arrows I use my own creations made, as png images with transparent backgrounds, in PaintShop ProX9.

HTH

John EB

Hi John EB,

It's being in Rotation with the ungrouped arrow and selecting different objects that seems to cause the problems.

For the problem of rotating my image or caption due to the arrow, I first attached an arrow to a different object, ungrouped it, gave a mirror and an angle, then copied it and placed it below the caption that is below a different object. Sometimes it causes the caption to rotated immediately sometimes I had to click on the caption object, click on the arrow and the caption rotated. Then I could click on the background video and it rotated. It is the mirror command that seems to be causing the problems.

Test 5

Confirmed

Test 6

Confirmed, but, I found that switching to Size/Position before selecting the other arrow and then switching to Rotation does not cause a problem. I went back and forth changing the rotation each time, then Size/Position, Rotation, and neither arrow changed.

Test 7

I copied the arrow_09.tga to a project folder and inserted it, resized it, mirrored it, changed the rotation, copied it below the caption. No problem with the caption or the background video, but changing the rotation and going back and forth between the original arrow_09.tga and the copy kept changing the rotation just by clicking on the object.

Test 8

Same as above, with new import of arrow but without mirroring. No problem having different rotations and going back and forth between the arrows - changing one had no impact on the other. Clicked on the caption, no problem, clicked on the rotated arrow below it and no - oh no - it rotated my text. Then I clicked on the background and back to the arrow and the background rotated. Undid that and tried it again, but could not get the caption or background to rotate.

Deleted copied arrow. Changed rotation of original, copied it below text, and the rotation of the copy was not the same as the original. Clicked on the caption, it rotated, same with background.

Undo, which deleted the copied arrow and straightened the caption and background, clicked on the original arrow (that is off to the side under another object) and my caption and background rotated.

Undo, everything straight, switch to Size/Position and click on original rotated arrow, caption and background stay straight.

Click on caption, change to Rotation, click on arrow, click on caption and it and the background rotate.

Tried it all again and everything worked properly. Copied the arrow to below caption, changed rotations, clicked on caption, copied arrow, original arrow - no problem. But, I went back and forth a few times changing the rotation and the copy started getting the wrong rotation and changing by itself and then click on the caption and back onto the arrow cause the caption to rotate.

Below - no problem (little exta title should not be there)

Below - rotated everything

Too many tests.

So, it is not just mirror that is problematic, but also being in rotation and making copies. I should do a video of this.

One of the problems is that I have not completely figured out what causes what because sometimes the caption and background do not rotate, and usually the copies work ok.

Hi John CB

I think we have 2 distinct issues here

Mirroring - get cropped object and/or no image or a black rectangle when exporting.

Rotation - causes the unwanted effects on ungrouped image effects objects.

I suspect this is because MEP is treating all its own tga files as an object effect, irrespective of where they are located.

This theory is supported by further testing - I have some tga files from another source and they do not exhibit the rotation issue when added to the timeline and treated as with either the arrow effect applied to the background image and ungrouped or multiple copies of the 3rd party tga files.

As I suggested previously, I believe the arrow image effect, or any of the image object effects, is not intended to be ungrouped from the object it is applied to.

HTH

John EB

Hi John EB,

Thanks for checking.

I tried renaming the arrow_09 to arrow_09a and I still had the problem. I find that strange.

I created my own arrow in Xara, saved as a tga file, and still had the same problem. My caption ended up rotated and the rotation of the arrow kept changing by itself.

I created a jpg file, same thing. Rotation eventually messes up.