The output formats are messed up in Movie Studio 2024

clement5 wrote on 1/15/2024, 10:51 AM

Some of these errors are also in 2023 and previous version.

The video test files are at: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AgEkZSUlkAcxgb0eg2M8ATSCee6zgQ?e=S9VwgB

Th test file 1 is from a DVD which has been detelecined. The aspect ratio is 4:3 and the frame rate is 24000/1001 or nominal 23.976 fps progressive. The frame size 720x480 this all standard NTSC.

The project was set to: 23.976fps 4:3 NTSC 720x480 and then file 1 was added to the timeline

Test file 2 was created by doing “Ctrl/ALT A” and Start with no option changes.

Test file 2 was added to the third line in MS and left justified.

As you can see from the screen shot there are 2 problems.

1. The imported file does not have the correct displayed aspect ratio. This is a new error in 2023/2024 versions of MS. Since an AVI does not have aspect ratio information MS should assume the same aspect ratio as the movie project NOT the aspect ratio from the fame size. If I right click on the track and look at the object properties it shows aspect ratio 4:3. Since file 2 is not letterboxed using a display program, this may be problem with the display which was not in the 2023 version.

2. You can also see that the output file number 2 is 9 s longer than the original file number 1. Also using mediainfo I find that the output file has 23976/1000 frame rate NOT 24000/1001. Picking a random place in the middle of the movie I find that the two tracks do NOT line up. They do line up near the beginning. Using VirtuaDub I find file 1 has 86808 frames while file 2 has 87015 frames. Looking at the two audio tracks, I find they exactly match which means the audio and the video get out of syn as the movie is played. Curiously the letterboxing is not evident in the thumbnails.

3. In 2023 I had exported a frame at 0:45:24:06. I just exported the same time and it does’t match the frame I exported in the 2023 version of MS. I have included that original frame as evidence. In the past I have found that some frames could not be exported and that I always got the nearby one, so you need to carefully check the individual frame export.

4. TESTING of other output formats.

a. Digital video AVI – Could not be tested because no way to get 23.976 fps

b. MP4 – appears to be OK in length, but only spot tested to see if frames are the same. ERROR: The output is letterboxed which is a bad error.

c. MPEG defaulted to PAL but the movie default is NTSC. This needs to be fixed. It should default to exactly the same settings as the movie. For testing the parameters were set to match the movie setting. ERROR: The output was letterboxed. The ouput was shorter than the original, and the frame matches got progressively worse with time. The displayed frame rate was 24000/1001 which is correct and both the frame size and aspect ratio were OK.

d. MJPEG output has the correct frame rate and the frames line up: Error: the output is letterboxed and the frame rate used by MS is 3:2

e. AV1 Defaults to PAL format and should default to NTSC movie specified format. After entering the correct info the information in the output framerate is correct. Error:but the video is letterboxed and the aspect ratio is specified as 3:2

f. Windows media I had to go to the advance option to set the aspect ration to 4:3 unlike the other menus. Error: It assumed 3:2. The assumed aspect ratio was wrong. The result was a letterboxed video. The video was off by one frame and there seemed to be an extra frame, probably added at the beginning.

g. HEVC – Had the same number of frames and they lined up. The metadata matched the input. Error: The HEVC output was letterboxed

Every output format is letterboxed, but not the AVI which has bad frame rate. This indicates you have multiple problems both in output and in display.

At present there is NO way I can get acceptable output from my video in any format. In the 2023 version I could sort of coerce MS to work, but I had difficulties when I output a segment from MS to edit it using Photoshop Extended. I also could get a good final MP4 but not now. MS 2024 is a disaster.

Please fix these problems quickly, as the 2024 version is not usable by me. The AVI and MP4 are the outputs I need.

I have Win 11 PRO 22H2, 1 TB main hard drive, 16 GB ram, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.19 GHz, Nvida Geforce GT 1030, Inrel UHD Graphics 630, Nvidia high def audio, Realtek audio

Comments

browj2 wrote on 1/15/2024, 11:15 AM

@clement5

Hi,

Before going into this any deeper, NTSC is 29.97, not 23.97.

John CB

johnebaker wrote on 1/15/2024, 2:31 PM

@clement5

. . . . test file 1 is from a DVD which has been detelecined. The aspect ratio is 4:3 . . . .

Assuming you are referring to the first video IVTC 1, the video on playback looks like the AR is 3:2, MediaInfo confirms this.

and in a 4:3 project you can see the letterboxing - I added the yellow background to differentiate the video from the actual screen AR.

Most of the problems, you are having are a result of this mismatch

Other points:

. . . . 23976/1000 frame rate NOT 24000/1001 . . . .

They are the same - note the different divisor.
Item 4a - 23.976 fps is not supported in MMS for export, nor can it be set - NTSC by definition is 29.97 fps for colour TV, originally it was 30 fps for b/w TV.

John EB
Forum Moderator

CubeAce wrote on 1/15/2024, 2:32 PM

@browj2

Hi john.

Before going into this any deeper, NTSC is 29.97, not 23.97.

Not for video taken for NTSC broadcast of old films that were to be seen on a colour TV set with no artifacts. Then the 24fps was made to become 23.976 fps to insert the colour signal and broadcast at the correct time length. At least as far as I understand it.

If I look up that frame rate on the net I get this.

23.976p. Some 24p productions, especially those made only for NTSC TV and video distribution (e.g., in Canada or the USA), actually have a frame rate of 24000 ÷ 1001, or 23. 976023 frames per second. Many use the term "24p" as a shorthand for this frame rate, since "23.976" does not roll off the tongue as easily.

So I guess these files are either from DVD or Blu-ray rips.

Ray.

clement5 wrote on 1/15/2024, 7:43 PM

The original file 1 is from a DVD which is most probably from a TV broadcast recorded on tape. It has been processed by Virtual Dub filters to remove a lot of the jitter, noise, and spots. There was much frame by frame processing and the final assembled from various processed segments using Movie studio 2023. Now 2024 works differently. I had ouput 2 minute avi segments for frame by frame processing because my version of Photoshop extended cannot handly anything longer. Yes, I looked up the current US standards which bless 24000/1001 frame rate. I have not checked to see if MS 2024 handles 30000/1001 old standard NTSC created for the early color era. VirtualDub handles 24000/1001 frame rate properly. One would think that 24976/1000 frame rate would line up properly in MS 2004, but it doesn't, so they have some really bad code, and this problem has been around through several iterations of the program, but it is now worse. All other codecs line up and have correct frame rate. The use of AVI is so that there is no loss in quality due successive iterations of processing from previous outputs.

clement5 wrote on 1/15/2024, 8:02 PM

In regards to the letterboxing. ---IVTC 1 is the original file which includes a black border of unknown origin. Early movies on TV were poorly broadcast with bad framing, usually cutting off parts of the scenes. This one looks like including more than the actual frame. This sloppiness seemed to continue for decades after the early B&W era. One station even continued to run the film during the commercials so when it came back you had no idea what had happened during the commercial. ...IVTC 2 has exactly the same black border, but the other outputs have letterboxing. There is an option to set the aspect ratio of the input file and I verified it was set to 4:3, the output aspect ratio was also set to 4:3 so there should have been no letterboxing. Yes I am a physicist as well as computer programmer and know how to calculate 23.976 from either of the ratios. Of course there are extra digits after the 6 for 24000/1001. Both of these ratios are close enough that the 2 videos should line up perfectly for a 1 hour movie, but not for longer ones. The 9 second mismatch at the end should not happen. AVI does not have an aspect ratio spec. so it has to be set by the program.

AAProds wrote on 1/15/2024, 8:04 PM

@clement5

The imported file does not have the correct displayed aspect ratio. This is a new error in 2023/2024 versions of MS. Since an AVI does not have aspect ratio information MS should assume the same aspect ratio as the movie project NOT the aspect ratio from the fame size. If I right click on the track and look at the object properties it shows aspect ratio 4:3. Since file 2 is not letterboxed using a display program, this may be problem with the display which was not in the 2023 version.

I can confirm this. With an AVI that doesn't have ratio information eg an analogue capture or an AVI from Virtual Dub, Movie Studio 2023 and 2024 do not import it "correctly". That is, the project ratio is not applied to it so that it remains at 720x576 5:4 (or, I assume, 720x480 3:2) aka square pixels.

Worse, when 4:3 or 5:4 (for PAL) is video properties is chosen, nothing changes.

MEP 2021 does not exhibit this error: importing one of these files results in the correct 4:3 ratio being displayed in the monitor.

While the videos can be manually stretched with SPR, as soon as the Section effect is applied, the stretch is ignored and the video becomes a mess.

For this reason, I have to import any AVI at the square-pixel shape for the video: 768x576 for PAL, 720x540 for NTSC.

This issue basically prevents use of analogue AVIs in the Magix editors.

I'll soon be making up a bug report.

clement5 wrote on 1/15/2024, 8:04 PM

Incidentally US Blu-Ray movies use 24000/1001 frame rate, but PAL areas use 24000/1000.

clement5 wrote on 1/15/2024, 10:32 PM

According to what I have read the AVI standard does not include an aspect ratio field however other containers or codecs do have embedded aspect ratio. MS assumed 4:3 and dutifully created a copy of the original with the same frames, but obviously duplicates of some which stretched it 9 seconds more. However, for other codecs it letterboxed the frames while preserving the original 24000/1001 frame rate. None of these are correct results. Curiously it even created output with the correct frame rate for other codecs in an AVI container. I used the default AVI output because it was the only lossless one that worked properly. I used to use Lagarith, but MS broke it. Maybe I should try it again.

clement5 wrote on 1/25/2024, 3:24 PM

I submitted a support request on Jan 15 and got a support ticket number, but have not heard back. The problem with AVI has been long standing through a number of different versions, so I think they don't know how to fix it. As a result I have gone back to the 2023 version which at least handled aspect ratio correctly, but not the frame rate correctly.

As to the frame rate 24000/1001, this is the same rate used on every US Blu-Ray from a movie I have in my possession, so it is a commonly used standard. To find out the actual frame rate you need a specialized program as it is normally quoted as 23.976 which could be either 24000/1001 or 23976/1000 and should not be a problem with a short video.