Strange MediaInfo results

me_again wrote on 2/19/2024, 12:47 AM

Greetings,

Yesterday I added another couple of DV tapes to my computer via firewire for editing. I usually use WinDV for this but I thought I would try MS2024 for the job. It worked without a hitch.

Then out of curiosity I thought I'd try Virtualdub as I hadn't used it for capturing before; just to see if it works. I found it tempremental in that it copied the video with no problem but for some reason the audio was intermittant (I need to play with this a bit more).

I then did a short WinDV capture and compared all three in MediaInfo.

NOTE: all miniDV tapes were recorded using the same Sony TVR18E camcorder

 

The Magix file:

General
Complete name                            : D:\RECORDED TV\Magix\Record - 0001.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Format profile                           : OpenDML
Format settings                          : BitmapInfoHeader / WaveFormatEx
File size                                : 13.5 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 3 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 30.5 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2003-08-29 09:06:28.000

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : DV
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Codec ID                                 : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint                            : Sony
Duration                                 : 1 h 3 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 24.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top field only
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.357
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:01:13
Time code source                         : Subcode time code
Stream size                              : 12.7 GiB (94%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed

 

The WinDV file:

General
Complete name                            : D:\RECORDED TV\WinDV\Ferrari.03-08-29_09-06.00.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Format profile                           : OpenDML
Format settings                          : BitmapInfoHeader / WaveFormatEx
File size                                : 13.5 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 3 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 30.5 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2003-08-29 09:06:29.000

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : DV
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Codec ID                                 : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint                            : Sony
Duration                                 : 1 h 3 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 24.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top field only
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.357
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:02:19
Time code source                         : Subcode time code
Stream size                              : 12.7 GiB (94%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed

 

The Virtualdub file:

General
Complete name                            : D:\RECORDED TV\Virtualdub\Ferrari.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Format settings                          : BitmapInfoHeader / WaveFormatEx
File size                                : 30.6 MiB
Duration                                 : 8 s 793 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 29.2 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2003-08-29 09:08:28.000

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : DV
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Codec ID                                 : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint                            : Sony
Duration                                 : 8 s 600 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 24.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Bottom Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.357
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:43:12
Time code source                         : Subcode time code
Stream size                              : 29.5 MiB (96%)
Encoding settings                        : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed

 

I appreciate the virtualdub clip is very short but that shouldn't alter the interlacing should it?

And why do both Magix and WinDV show "Top field only" instead of Top field first?

To completely throw me, I capture my sons wedding using WinDV and this gave the interlacing as Bottom filed first (same camcorder):

General
Complete name                            : D:\RECORDED TV\WinDV\Chris & Steph Wedding.07-09-01.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Format profile                           : OpenDML
Format settings                          : BitmapInfoHeader / PcmWaveformat
File size                                : 15.0 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 10 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 30.3 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Recorded date                            : 2007-09-01 12:39:27.000

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : DV
Commercial name                          : DVCAM
Codec ID                                 : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint                            : Sony
Duration                                 : 1 h 10 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 24.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Bottom Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.357
Time code of first frame                 : 00:00:03:13
Time code source                         : Subcode time code
Stream size                              : 14.2 GiB (95%)
Encoding settings                        : ae mode=full automatic / wb mode=automatic / white balance= / fcm=manual focus

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed

 

I've not noticed these discrepancies before and I've not had any trouble with editing but should I be concerned?

AndyW

ps apologies for the length of this post and for adding probably too much Mediainfo info(?).

Last changed by me_again

"Just when I think I've learned the workrounds of MEP/MS the bounders go and update it"

Aorus Z690 Elite DDR4 Motherboard

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K, 3600 Mhz, 12 Core(s) 20 Logical Processor(s)

64gb (4x16gb sticks) DDR4 3200Mhz

Intel(R) UHD Graphics 770

Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4060 Eagle OC 8Gb DDR6 DLSS3 Windforce

Corsair RM750 PSU, be quiet! Pure Rock 2 cooling

System drive 500Gb 4.0NVMe M,2 SSD, dedicated video/audio drive 2Tb Gen 4 NVMe SSD, 2x 500Gb Local Fixed Disks (Music etc), USB3 expansion drive 5Tb and 2Tb

Audio Onboard ALC1220 Amp-Up, Windows 11 Home updated as and when

Movie Studio 2025 Suite, Photo Manager Deluxe 13

All Drivers updated as they become available.

Comments

AAProds wrote on 2/19/2024, 1:05 AM

@me_again

DV has always been BFF AFAIK, odd that Magix and WinDV are showing TF Only. It would be a worry if you only have half the fields you should have.

I'd try a "transfer" with Scenalyzer and see what you get.

Can you post, on Google Drive, a snippet of one of your TF Only files?

Last changed by AAProds on 2/19/2024, 1:06 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

me_again wrote on 2/19/2024, 1:59 AM

@AAProds

Greetings Al,

Something else odd, I loaded the file into Avidemux and exported a clip with copy setting. That file had Bottom field first.

Here is a first generation clip I've just recorded with MS2024:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-4CrhYwDI0Lwm-weu3F3tLO8ed-LrdG8/view?usp=drivesdk

AndyW

"Just when I think I've learned the workrounds of MEP/MS the bounders go and update it"

Aorus Z690 Elite DDR4 Motherboard

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K, 3600 Mhz, 12 Core(s) 20 Logical Processor(s)

64gb (4x16gb sticks) DDR4 3200Mhz

Intel(R) UHD Graphics 770

Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4060 Eagle OC 8Gb DDR6 DLSS3 Windforce

Corsair RM750 PSU, be quiet! Pure Rock 2 cooling

System drive 500Gb 4.0NVMe M,2 SSD, dedicated video/audio drive 2Tb Gen 4 NVMe SSD, 2x 500Gb Local Fixed Disks (Music etc), USB3 expansion drive 5Tb and 2Tb

Audio Onboard ALC1220 Amp-Up, Windows 11 Home updated as and when

Movie Studio 2025 Suite, Photo Manager Deluxe 13

All Drivers updated as they become available.

AAProds wrote on 2/19/2024, 2:44 AM

@me_again

'Tis a mystery. Definitely has top and bottom fields, and it is BFF: open it in VDub, set the Deinterlace filter to Yadif, Double Frame Rate and you'll see the smooth frame advance in BFF and jerky motion in TFF.

GSpot reports it as 50 fields/sec but TFF.

You can also see the jaggies, a telltale sign the file is interlaced.

While you're in VDub, it's interesting to see how much smoother the de-interlaced version is. Giddy up horsey. 😉

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

me_again wrote on 2/20/2024, 12:19 AM

@AAProds

It is a little odd isn't it. When I posted yesterday I hadn't put it through the Vdub deinterlacing as I was trying to get all 3 MiniDVs captured before I did a batch in it.

That Scenalyzer's quite good isn't it? WinDV is good but I can't get it to preview the audio, which is a bit of a pain.

AndyW

"Just when I think I've learned the workrounds of MEP/MS the bounders go and update it"

Aorus Z690 Elite DDR4 Motherboard

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K, 3600 Mhz, 12 Core(s) 20 Logical Processor(s)

64gb (4x16gb sticks) DDR4 3200Mhz

Intel(R) UHD Graphics 770

Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4060 Eagle OC 8Gb DDR6 DLSS3 Windforce

Corsair RM750 PSU, be quiet! Pure Rock 2 cooling

System drive 500Gb 4.0NVMe M,2 SSD, dedicated video/audio drive 2Tb Gen 4 NVMe SSD, 2x 500Gb Local Fixed Disks (Music etc), USB3 expansion drive 5Tb and 2Tb

Audio Onboard ALC1220 Amp-Up, Windows 11 Home updated as and when

Movie Studio 2025 Suite, Photo Manager Deluxe 13

All Drivers updated as they become available.

AAProds wrote on 2/20/2024, 12:30 AM

@me_again

That Scenalyzer's quite good isn't it?

What did MediaInfo report about the field order?

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

me_again wrote on 2/20/2024, 2:21 AM

@AAProds

Interlaced, Bottom Field First

"Just when I think I've learned the workrounds of MEP/MS the bounders go and update it"

Aorus Z690 Elite DDR4 Motherboard

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700K, 3600 Mhz, 12 Core(s) 20 Logical Processor(s)

64gb (4x16gb sticks) DDR4 3200Mhz

Intel(R) UHD Graphics 770

Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4060 Eagle OC 8Gb DDR6 DLSS3 Windforce

Corsair RM750 PSU, be quiet! Pure Rock 2 cooling

System drive 500Gb 4.0NVMe M,2 SSD, dedicated video/audio drive 2Tb Gen 4 NVMe SSD, 2x 500Gb Local Fixed Disks (Music etc), USB3 expansion drive 5Tb and 2Tb

Audio Onboard ALC1220 Amp-Up, Windows 11 Home updated as and when

Movie Studio 2025 Suite, Photo Manager Deluxe 13

All Drivers updated as they become available.