Slow Export AVI to MPEG4 with RTX 3060

AAProds wrote on 10/29/2023, 12:44 AM

This is more of an FYI, but I'd certainly be interested in other's thoughts or observations.

One of my workflows for working with VHS tapes is to capture and then deinterlace them into MagicYUV AVIs at 50fps, then bring them into MMS for editing, cropping and applying various effects including Neat Video.

I then export them as 1440x1080, 50fps MPEG 4s ie H264 at 5000kbps.

With the RTX 3060, I'm achieving an export speed of around 30% of real speed ie it's taking me 3 times as long as the movie to export. This is, to put it mildly, incredibly frustrating given I get around 1200% when exporting from MP4 source files. The 3060 is working at around 30% with the CPU around 15%.

After a 12 hour+ export overnight for a ~4 hour tape, in desperation I put all 3 HW acceleration droplists to the UHD770 and lo and behold, I achieved 100% exporting speed. The 3060 stayed around 30% (but jumped up and down a lot) but the 770 was steadily running at around 35%, with the CPU now at 35%.

My takeaway? For export, if you're not happy with your export speed, experiment with the HW acceleration settings, as it appears the export speed depends on the source.

Comments

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 1:49 AM

Greetings Al,

I don't have that problem with my 2060 when encoding "standard" formats (4:3. 16:9 etc) but I do when I export non-standard (usually 3:2) in which case I have to put the UHD770 as my export GPU. I don't have to change the import or process GPUs from the Nvidia though. This happens no matter what Nvidia driver is installed.

I also feel that the latest couple of drivers for the UHD 770 have improved the export speed - maybe that's just in the mind (I would have typed psychological but I couldn't spell it 😕😱)

Just out of curiosity, when you export the above project with the 3060 does the exporting window with the timeline state it's using hardware encoding? Mine doesn't when I use the 2060 for exporting.

Mind you, I am still using MS2023.

AndyW

AAProds wrote on 10/29/2023, 2:30 AM

@me_again

Thanks Andy, I have since found the same as you: I only need to put the Export on to the UHD770.

Just out of curiosity, when you export the above project with the 3060 does the exporting window with the timeline state it's using hardware encoding? Mine doesn't when I use the 2060 for exporting.

Yes, weird stuff here too. No "Hardware encoding", nor "No hardware encoding" messages in the brackets, but sometimes (haven't pinned it down when) I get an "update your graphics card driver" message in the brackets.

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 4:36 AM

Greetings Al,

If I was into conpsiracy theories I would think that Magix have hacked my copy of MS2023 causing it to crash often, but I'm not so I won't.

For the past week I've been slaving away creating slideshows from the gazillion negatives, photos and 35mm slides - my own and my late fathers - something I've been doing on a regular basis for some years (when I get the urge) and MS2023 has ALWAYS been stable no matter what I've thrown at it.

However, every session I've done for the past week, Magix has frozen/crashed and closed without saving a back up. Luckily I save regularly so don't lose a lot.

Thinking about it just, while drinking a stron cup of tea (because MS2023 has just crashed for the 3rd time this morning), I realised that a week ago I updated my Nvidia 2060 to version 31.0.15.4584.

Hmmm. The driver works well on other programs I use but MS2023 (and 2024 from what you are saying) obviously has a glitch when it talks to the Nvidia GPU. Could that glitch be mamade worse by installing a new nvidia driver.

I seem to remember on this forum something like this happening a few years ago.

I'll run on the Intel UHD770 for everything for a while and see if things improve i.e. MS2023 does not crash

AndyW

johnebaker wrote on 10/29/2023, 5:07 AM

@AAProds, @me_again

Hi Al. Andy

Which settings for the GPU work best for export in terms of hardware acceleration depends a great deal on what is on the timeline ie images or video, titles, and effects applied.

I find the following items and effects are not accelerated on my RTX 2060

Images
Titles
Any colour effect, eg brightness, contrast, exposure, and colour correction including the use of LUTs

My current projects where the majority of the media is video from for my sports camera, recorded HEVC 10 bit D-Cine - the D-Cine requires a LUT correction to expand the colour range, I switched to the iGPU for the Device options.

Projects with a majority of video from my other cameras - h.264/AAC encoded, with minimal colour correction, the odd title and effects applied are quicker to export on my RTX 2060.

HTH

John EB

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 6:04 AM

@johnebaker

Thanks for the reply John. It does leave me a little puzzled though.

What I was talking about (and I think so was Al), I'm sure he'll let me know if not 😏) is the over all exporting of the project:-

The puzzling bit is

"I find the following items and effects are not accelerated on my RTX 2060

Images

Titles

Any colour effect, eg brightness, contrast, exposure, and colour correction including the use of LUTs"

As I said above, I create a lot of slideshows some of which are exported in "Standard" formats such as 4:3 and 16:9 all of which export with the RTX 2060 using hardware acceleration.

I class hardware acceleration as being the whole edit not just a few effects.

I'm sure that this is a misunderstanding of the complexity of what does what to what during exporting on my part. All i really know is that the RTX 2060 does everything I ask of it with a high degree of rapidity EXCEPT export anything in 3:2 format - and apparently Al's Magic YUV edit exported at 1440x1080, 50fps H264 at 5000kbps.

AmdyW

ps I've just completed the slideshow (the one that crashed 3 times with Nvidia) using the UHD770 for all actions with no freeze or crash. I'm now thinkung that MS2023 does not like the new driver 31.0.15.4584 - neither do I come to that!!

pps Just noticed that Nvidia have released another driver (545.92) only a week after the last one, Suspicious. I'll try it and see if all becomes well.

johnebaker wrote on 10/29/2023, 8:21 AM

@me_again, @AAProds

Hi Andy

. . . . "Standard" formats such as 4:3 and 16:9 . . . . EXCEPT export anything in 3:2 format . . . .

Not quite, you cannot export at 3:2 AR unless the project/video resolution width and height for export are divisible by 16 (and possibly 8) - the encoder uses a 16×16 (possibly 8x8) block encoding matrix and this is the key to exporting at 3:2 AR.

Below is the video of the actual project and export in MMS 2024 and the MediaInfo data from a project set to 960 x 640 (3:2) which was HWA on my RTX 2060, video on timeline was 16:9 and project was not adjusted to match the video.

General
Complete name : W:\MAGIX\DVD_BD_Projects\Export\Dump\2023-10-29-2.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/avc1)
File size : 36.6 MiB
Duration : 48 s 960 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 274 kb/s
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Encoded date : 2023-10-29 12:30:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-10-29 12:30:15 UTC

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=25
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 48 s 960 ms
Bit rate : 6 142 kb/s
Width : 960 pixels
Height : 640 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.400
Stream size : 35.8 MiB (98%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2023-10-29 12:30:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-10-29 12:30:15 UTC
Codec configuration box : avcC

John EB

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 10:02 AM

@AAProds

Sorry Al, I seem to have unintentionally swirved off topic slightly.

@johnebaker

Thanks again John but now I'm totally confused.

The operative words in your reply are "... export in MMS 2024". I'm using MS 2023 and no combination of format divisable by 16 or 8 or otherwise works except 4608 x 3072.
This was discovered by Magix support in March this year when I raised it as a bug. They emailed this "solution" to me

That works but what a size for a slideshow destined for DVD or a phone.

With regard to "you cannot export at 3:2 AR unless the project/video resolution width and height for export are divisible by 16 (and possibly 8)", I've used Nvidia cards for over 10 years and (almost) never had a problem exporting to 3:2 in any size ratio.

I also must question it because my Intel UHD770 handles (for example) 900x600 3:2 format without a hiccup.

I asked about exporting to 900x600 with the RTX2060 and MS2024 here https://www.magix.info/us/forum/heic-photos--1324779/#ca1884796 and the answers confirm that MS2024 can handle 900x600 3:2 format with both of my Nvidia and Intel GPUs.

AndyW

johnebaker wrote on 10/29/2023, 10:55 AM

@me_again

Hi Andy

. . . . I asked about exporting to 900x600 with the RTX2060 . . . .

I had forgotten about that topic.

. . . . Intel UHD770 handles (for example) 900x600 3:2 . . . . .

The plot thickens - can you check some of the exports with MediaInfo - it and Movie Inspector reports an extra 6 pixels on the width - the Windows File Explorer properties of the video clip and VLC say it is 900px wide.

Width : 906 pixels
Original width : 900 pixels
Height : 600 pixels

This is an odd number as it does not fit with the h.264 macroblock sizes of 16x16 and 8x8 with subdivisions down to 4x4 - this may be why 900x600 works - both are divisible by 4 ???

John EB

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 11:10 AM

@johnebaker

Greetings John,

Media info reports the file as 900x600

General
Complete name                            : D:\New folder\1s - 01.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 1.16 MiB
Duration                                 : 14 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 693 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-10-28 07:57:27
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-10-28 07:57:27

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L6.2@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 14 s 0 ms
Bit rate                                 : 497 kb/s
Width                                    : 900 pixels
Height                                   : 600 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.037
Stream size                              : 850 KiB (72%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-10-28 07:57:27
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-10-28 07:57:27
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

AndyW

johnebaker wrote on 10/29/2023, 11:46 AM

@me_again

Hi Andy

Thanks for checking.

. . . . HEVC . . . .

Looks like we have been talking at cross purposes I have been referring to h.264/AVC not h.265/HEVC which does indeed export at 900 x 600 correctly, with hardware acceleration, and no 'padding'.

The h.265 encoding is in some ways similar to h.264, ie it uses macroblocks, however it has a different structure and has a higher capability for encoding video.

John EB

me_again wrote on 10/29/2023, 11:52 AM

Aah, OK just checking

OK checked and my most humble apologies, the size is indeed width 906 with original width 900.

General
Complete name                            : D:\1s.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/avc1)
File size                                : 101 MiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 20 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 6 051 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-10-29 16:55:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-10-29 16:55:59

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=25
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2 min 20 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 5 919 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 7 999 kb/s
Width                                    : 906 pixels
Original width                           : 900 pixels
Height                                   : 600 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.436
Stream size                              : 98.8 MiB (98%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-10-29 16:55:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-10-29 16:55:59
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Now that's what assumption does for you (me). How could I have doubted.

So I can only assume that HEVC is a more "intelligent" codec to use.

AndyW

johnebaker wrote on 10/29/2023, 5:03 PM

@me_again

Hi Andy

Thanks for rechecking.

. . . . I can only assume that HEVC is a more "intelligent" codec to use . . . .

I don't know about its intelligence 🙊, however the encoding process is far more complex and capable of encoding finer detail than h.264/AVC can do and gives a smaller file size.

It is because of this complexity that it is processor/GPU intensive and older PC's struggle with the encoding and smooth playback.

John EB

me_again wrote on 12/18/2023, 7:40 AM

Greetings Al,

This post isn't about your topic but about a comment you made ...

One of my workflows for working with VHS tapes is to capture and then deinterlace them into MagicYUV AVIs at 50fps

I had a play with this and It's a BRILLIANT work flow- - thanks - no more jumpy clips and what there is left is taken care of by ProDAD's CMOS Fixr Pro (which is odd because I thought it only worked on CMOS recordings. I'm sure my early Sony & Canon video cameras had CCD but it's is far too technical for me I'm afraid). Slow motion is also seriously improved.

After all these years such a simple idea never crossed my mind. Mind you I have had to buy a 5Tb external drive as an early Christmas present to myself.

Just out of curiosity why MagicYUV over Lagarith?

Thanks again Al and apologies to you and the Mods for hijacking the post.

AndyW

AAProds wrote on 12/18/2023, 7:56 AM

@me_again

Gday Andy, you may remember my bleating last year and earlier about "frame salad", where, with a Lagarith file on the timeline, randomly and often, you'd get a frame from somewhere else in the video popping up in the wrong place. The "frame salad" term came from a thread on the German forum talking about the problem. It drove me mad, so in desperation I tried HUFF, same thing. I then came across Magic and paid up. My frame salad issues disappeared!

Interestingly, with my new setup, I'm not getting any frame salad, so there's some performance thing tripping Magix up. I've done a few 50fps LAGS intermediate videos and they come out nicely.

IIRC picked up the 50fps idea from .

As the Kiwis would say, "Smooth as, Bro!". 😂

me_again wrote on 12/18/2023, 10:53 AM

@AAProds

Aah yes Al, I remember that "fruit salad" thing now but, being a true blue Englishman I ignored it because I didn't have that problem 🤗👍.

AndyW

ps - to you Al and indeed anyone that's reading this, have a Merry Christmas and let's hope for a more stable 2024.

AAProds wrote on 12/18/2023, 5:17 PM

@me_again

And the same to you, Andy!