Problem with exported DVD

emmrecs wrote on 1/25/2025, 11:12 AM

Once again I'm seeking the collective wisdom of other users!! I suspect it may be something to do with the issue I raised in this thread. Although it may equally be not at all connected.

At this link https://we.tl/t-oClKn3kn7h there is a folder containing two very short video files available to download, Demo01 and Demo02.

Demo01 is a very short segment exported from a much longer VHS digitisation in VPX16. Demo02 is (more or less) the same footage after export from the same source footage as Demo01 to DVD (Image Recorder) and playing back the resulting .iso file prior to actual burning.

I haven't included the MediaInfo data since that will be accessible to anyone downloading the files and scanning them with MI.

Obvious question, I hope: why is there such Image Ghosting/Duplication in the DVD version?

Just as a little additional background: this VHS tape is one of five I have been commissioned by a client to transcribe to DVD. The other four have been fine but this one, which is actually the second of a two-tape set, has proved to be a real pain! The original video, from a late 1990's TV series is seemingly not otherwise available on DVD.

I would very much welcome any thoughts/ideas/suggestions to help make the DVD viewable!!

I should add: I also "Burned to DVD" (Image Recorder) from MMS 2025 Suite, with the identical result.

TIA.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 1/25/2025, 2:05 PM

@emmrecs

Hi Jeff

Assuming that the project settings were the defaults SD APL 25 fps 4:3 and the burn setting were also the default PAL settings, then I cannot replicate this, played in VLC and PowerDVD 22, no jitter or ghosting.

Can you post the MediaInfo data for the original recording.?

Which player did you use to check the ISO file?

If you burn to disc does the issue show up when played in a DVD player to TV?

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 1/25/2025, 2:44 PM

@emmrecs

Hi Jeff.

While this is not my field at all I am puzzled as to why the aspect ratios are recorded as different even though both have the same amount of pixels recorded for each dimension.

Second, although both clips say that they are progressive files, The DVD version clearly shows scanning lines so was the field order wrongly selected at some point and imbedded into the disc? If so, I doubt that can be undone or made viewable.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 1/25/2025, 2:48 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Not sure what you mean. Demo02 is jumping all over the place in VLC and any Windows based player I have.

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 1/25/2025, 3:04 PM

@CubeAce, @emmrecs

Hi Ray

. . . . Not sure what you mean. Demo02 is jumping all over the place . . . .

As I understand what Jeff has done - use Demo01 to create an ISO DVD image and play this, Demo 02 is what Jeff is seeing when palying the resultant DVD ISO image.

John EB

emmrecs wrote on 1/25/2025, 3:45 PM

@johnebaker

Hi John and Ray,

Thank you for your suggestions.

Demo01 is an mp4 extract from the whole 2.5 hours timeline. Demo02 is a screen recording of just that part of the .iso of the whole 2.5 hours, playing back when mounted in Cyberlink Power2Go.

I'm not at my computer at the moment - writing this on my phone - so will endeavour to get the MI data of the source (.mpg) file tomorrow.

Jeff

CubeAce wrote on 1/25/2025, 3:59 PM

@johnebaker @emmrecs

Ah! got it.

Thanks both.

Ray.

ericlnz wrote on 1/25/2025, 4:23 PM

Playing around I suspect

The source is Interlaced LFF
Whilst the output is labelled progressive my experience is that DVD players (at least old ones) always treat discs as interlaced
It's being played TFF so the fields are jumping backwards and forwards

I could be totally wrong but it's worth looking into.

AAProds wrote on 1/25/2025, 6:24 PM

To paraphrase a classic Australian TV ad... "Oh Mr Jeff, what a mess!"

I agree with Eric; the field order is wrong but doesn't seem consistent; it comes and goes, with duplicated frames thrown in. It should be easy enough to nut out though.

Can we have 15 seconds or so of the capture AVI of that area of the tape?

Also, a section of the VOB of the same area.

I'd then do an encode of the AVI into MPEG 2 to see if Magix is coughing at that stage (VOB production).

What a mess ad:

AAProds wrote on 1/25/2025, 9:37 PM

@emmrecs

Jeff, you need to get the scissors out... 😉

emmrecs wrote on 1/26/2025, 8:53 AM

@johnebaker @AAProds @CubeAce @ericlnz

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

@AAProds

Not sure about the "scissors"??? I will endeavour to get the other files you requested but there is no .avi.

As per the MediaInfo data on the source file (below) it is already an MPEG-2, produced by the Magix Video Convertor, opened in VPX16 for editing.

General
Complete name : V:\Exports\Mather_InvasionEarth02.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 6.62 GiB
Duration : 2 h 27 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 416 kb/s
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings : BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Duration : 2 h 27 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 064 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.585
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Closed
Stream size : 6.26 GiB (95%)

Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Duration : 2 h 27 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 224 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 41.667 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 237 MiB (3%)

Menu
Format : DVD-Video

Jeff

EDIT: to add the MI data for one of the .VOB files, just in case it might be helpful!

General
Complete name : J:\DVD Image Files\DVD Image Mather_InvasionEarth02.old\VTS_01_1.VOB
CompleteName_Last : J:\DVD Image Files\DVD Image Mather_InvasionEarth02.old\VTS_01_7.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 6.51 GiB
Duration : 2 h 27 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 6 301 kb/s
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings : BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Duration : 2 h 27 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 952 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.574
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Closed
Stream size : 6.15 GiB (94%)

Menu
Format : DVD-Video

AAProds wrote on 1/26/2025, 9:06 AM

@emmrecs

Not sure about the "scissors"???

Sorry Jeff, me being cryptic. I'd be using the Section effect to get rid of all the black bars and side crud. I can't tell if the actual video area should be 4:3; when it's imported as an overall 4:3 frame, the actual video is 1.39:1.

Do you know what the name of the video is or where it came from? That may provide a clue to the display aspect ratio.

emmrecs wrote on 1/26/2025, 9:15 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al,

I guessed the "cryptic", just wasn't sure if I was missing something obvious!

I think all the details you ask for (re the source video) are included in the MI data above?

johnebaker wrote on 1/26/2025, 10:20 AM

@emmrecs

Hi Jeff

Going back to the beginning

. . . . The other four have been fine but this one, which is actually the second of a two-tape set . . . .

I am puzzled why the 2nd tape has been recorded BFF, if they are PAL tapes then they should be TFF, NTSC VHS is BFF.

I assume by 2 tape set you mean a part 1 and part 2.

What does MediaInfo say the field order is for the other tapes digitised?

John EB

emmrecs wrote on 1/26/2025, 11:11 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John,

Many thanks for sticking with me on this!

The client left me 5 VHS tapes; 4 have transferred and exported to DVD without problem (though no discs burned yet), 3 are single-layer, 1 is dual.

The two-tape set is indeed a part 1 and and a part 2; it's a TV serial, 6 episodes, so 3 on each c. 2.5 hour tape. It's the second of these that's giving all the problems, the first (obviously d/l) is fine! The serial was filmed by BBC Scotland (in association with the Sci-Fi channel); it's definitely labelled PAL VHS.

I've just looked at the field order for the 4 successfully-transferred tapes and found this: 1 is TFF (to be transferred to single-layer disc) 3 are BFF, so 2 for single layer and one for dual. All are UK-released tapes, as far as I know, 1 is certainly labelled "PAL VHS", as noted above???

Jeff

AAProds wrote on 1/26/2025, 6:09 PM

@emmrecs

Jeff, I fear we are headed for a merrygoround ride; a sample of your capture (which I assume is MPEG 2 from that internal card you use?) will allow us to investigate further. See my making a snippet with AVIDemux if you don't know how to. 60 seconds or so hosted externally.

I'm not sure the field order is the problem here; in clip 1, the video is Progressive. In clip 2, it's just borked. Frames jumping back and forth, duplicate frames, it's a mess. I can only assume that Magix cannot read the original capture properly and therefore botches the conversion to VOB.

Re clip 1 (which I assume is a render of the original capture clip, there are major blending/ghosting issues. The video quality itself doesn't look to bad to me so I assume that the capture process is causing this: either VCR or digitiser.

So, I'd try another capture of the same area. If no good, try another capture flow: for example your Magix dongle into Magix MXV, or the dongle into a classic AVI codec like UT video with AmarecTV.

And a sample would be great.

I think all the details you ask for (re the source video) are included in the MI data above?

I searched the net for "Mather Invasion" but nothing came up. I don't trust MediaInfo in these cases. The file is a mess so Mediainfo could well be spitting out rubbish. The reason I ask is because the frame that has been captured has multiple subframes and borders in it that should be removed. That underlying/original frame size is the query.

CubeAce wrote on 1/26/2025, 8:18 PM

@emmrecs @AAProds

Try this search on Google and see if any of the search results bear fruit.

invasionearth martha scott

Ray.

ericlnz wrote on 1/26/2025, 9:18 PM

if they are PAL tapes then they should be TFF, NTSC VHS is BFF

Whilst TFF is normal for PAL mpg/VOB they don't have to be. PAL DVD players will handle LFF. Vegas DVDA recompresses files for a PAL DVD to LFF(BFF) VOB files. I've not found a way to change this. It bothered me at first but they play perfectly on Blu-ray & DVD players and my TV and PC.