@MME007

Hi Marc

. . . . a wide panorama (still picture 5536 x 2160) . . . .

Which image format is the panorama?

Can you post a MediaInfo analysis of the image, see this tutorial on how to setup MediaInfo and analyse a video/image file for all the data required.

John EB
Forum Moderator

By doubling the frame rate all is indeed smoother and my pan becomes acceptable at the speed I want.

The picture is in JPG format.

Mediainfo are:

Complete name                            : E:\Italie 2019\13-04-19_Pise\D2C08794.JPG
Format                                   : JPEG
File size                                : 3.19 MiB

Image
Format                                   : JPEG
Width                                    : 5 536 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.19 MiB (100%)

Thanks for your help !

More ideas are welcome. As you can see, I'm not an expert...

@MME007

Hi Marc

Thanks for the MediaInfo data - that is a 'standard' JPG format, I was hoping it was not an interlaced image format.

As the higher frame rate is much smoother, was the export encoding at 24 or 25 fps?

John EB

I was indeed in 25fps.

Now in 50fps, all is looking better.

Thanks for your help,

Marc

Hi Marc.

The problem with still images is they have no B or P frames. So effectively you are copying all I frames. I tried Al's suggestion and it still looks a bit juddering to me. I think your initial idea of making the pans slower by making the image last longer a good one as that would also produce more frames. Four times longer and you double Al's suggestion. So I tried doing that for myself and then imported the video clip back in and sped it up four times using the Speed effect and ticking the interleaved box as well in the hope the encoder would do more binning.

Whether that worked or not the result seemed smoother to me. The other thing is when you use the size position rotation effect, try changing the curve setting to get a more even flow when a change of direction occurs.

Straight change of FPS only.

With a longer lasting image, exported and then sped up.

The differences in speed of change between positions was caused by me doing the experiments back to front and having to move the key frames to fit the timeline on the still image. You can decide if one is smoother enough to be bothered with the additional steps which if done at the time rather than what I did, doesn't take that long.

Ray.

This has been an interesting topic for me as I have historically never even thought of upping the framerate for slideshows; I only became aware of the "calming/smoothing" effect of higher frame rates with my recent journey into VHS digitising.

@MME007

What duration do you want your video pan to last for?

@CubeAce

Ray, going from 25 to 50 makes it look great for me (7 second pan). For you, I was going to suggest cranking up the frame rate to 100 to smooth it even more but alas, Magix Export will not accept 100fps for H264. 😂

@MME007 Hi, I use 30 or 60fps,

I stole @CubeAce picture.

This is 50fps, watch the pan left right at the beginning,

This 60fps, the pan at the beginning is smoother,

@AAProds Hi, I've played a fair bit with 'moving' stills & I found that improving the frame rate does increase the smoothness although there seems to be a limit, going above 60p doesn't improve things much,

@MME007 @AAProds @johnebaker @Former user

Hi Guys.

I put the wrong video up on the second video. I'd been doing a lot of different versions and stupidly put the results all in the same folder. I have corrected that now.

I think it is really about putting as many frames in initially as possible to get a smooth rendering as possible, at which point you can bring the frame rate down a bit on the final export to 50fps. I don't see that much difference between a 60fps render and a 50fps render if the original image is lengthened more. Also the more you zoom in the more you need to do lengthen the time length of the image. Gid's example doesn't zoom in as much as my initial ones did. That makes a big difference. If anyone that has already chipped in wants my original jpg to play with just PM me.

This time around I started from scratch again but the initial image runs for eight times the length I wanted and then passed through two lots of speeding up. Again if any of you four want to download my version I'll add it to the image folder.

The re-encoding here really hasn't done this justice.

I've also finally found something that maxes out my GPU in this experiment.

Ray.

@CubeAce The main reason I didn't zoom in much was because I screen captured your image @ UHD 3840x2160 & then resized it up to 5536x2160, it wasn't the best quality to begin with so just a little zooming in with MMS really showed the low quality of the capture, 🤷‍♂️ I exported it about 10+ times with different frame rates etc & was more interested in the quality of movement (Panning).

@Former user

Hi Gid.

You are welcome to have a copy of the original image it you wish. It would show you the additional problems I had with zooming more. It does affect the panning. I'm not sure if Marc even wants to zoom in more than I did or not.

Ray.

@CubeAce Just wrote a long comment, pressed 'comment' & it just disappeared 😡

Thanks for the offer, maybe later, I'm busy at the mo doing nothing with something else. 😁

In the past I've exported things at a higher frame rate to get smoothness in the motion but if that clip is then reimported to a 30p project some of that smoothness can be lost, I guess that is because frames are being discarded to fit 60p into a 30p project?

My thoughts are if you export at a high frame rate you get good smooth motion - yay! 🤸‍♂️ but if that clip is part of a bigger project does that mean the whole project would need to be 60p so that that added exported clip doesn't get it's frame rate reduced 🤔. I've deleted all the trials I did to show or try this,,,

@Former user

Hi Gid,

Disappearing comments have happened to me too just lately either that or the previous comment I made replaces what I typed. Too many times this week.

Ray.

Thanks all for your tests.
I want to move from the left to the right in about 5 seconds.

Here is the picture.

I exported in H264 HD 25fps.

In 50fps is indeed better. I should try if 30 fps makes an improvement.

@MME007

Hi Marc

Is this the 5 536 x 2 160 image in the MediaInfo analysis above ?

If so it has been shrunk uploading it to the forum, the size now is 3840x1498. You need to upload to Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox or other file sharing site, and post the link to it, for us to get the original copy.

John EB

@MME007

Hi Marc,

When doing a relatively fast pan, more images per second is better than less. The program creates each image from your wide image. In other words, the program creates the first image, or rather a section of your photo, at the left end of the photo, full height, but with the width given by your project parameters. Then it creates an image for the next frame where the section has been moved to, depending on the speed of your requested pan...and so on. If you change the fps from 25 to 50, the program creates accurate images for the additional frames - they are not interpolations.

This is not the case for a video filmed at 25fps and then changed to 50fps. The program has no intermediate images to work with so will either duplicate images or try to interpolate between the filmed images, depending on the parameter set under Speed. Thus taking a series of photos and creating a wide image and using the program to do the pan will always be better than doing a video pan.

You have indicated that you want a 5 second pan. Is that also how long you want the panned image to be on the screen?

If not, then you need to increase the duration of the image and then adjust the start and end keyframes to be where you want the start and end of the movement.

If you find that the pan starts too abruptly, then click on the button (see image below) in the keyframe area that shows a diagonal line. This will switch to a Bézier curve and will give a smooth acceleration from 0 and a deceleration to 0. You may want to make the pan, and thus the overall duration, longer for this.

Since you are using VPX, you can click on that button again to get handles on the Bézier curve that you can adjust (not available in MMS).

In the image above, I turned on the curve on the timeline which is where you get access to the Bézier handles. For panning, only the Offset:x value changes, so that is curve that is turned on in the timeline.

In the image below, I adjusted the Bézier handle to make the acceleration quicker.

In the image below, I added a keyframe and played with the Bézier handles, so the images will slowly start to pan, accelerate, slow down to about 0 (actually I messed it up so that it will actually go backwards a bit), then accelerate again.

John CB

For those of you following this with Movie Studio, basic starting and ending smoothing is available with the Bezier button on the Keyframe timeline:

For those of you following this with Movie Studio, basic starting and ending smoothing is available with the Bezier button on the Keyframe timeline:

@MME007 @CubeAce 60fps FHD Magix AVC. Bezier on.

I pan left-right full height, then zoom in & pan right-left a bit slower through the faces, the Bezier is good for smoothing the movement but when panning across right-left it starts slow, speeds up mid way then slows down to the end as it reaches far left, I'd prefer just those two keys to be Linear so you get a consistent pan through the faces.

What's going on with the Forum? It duplicated my post above instead of posting my video.

Here's my 5 seconds with Movie Studio Bezier presets at start and end (cCameraZoomshot with Right Arrow preset).

Here's my take on the LT of P:

@johnebaker

If so it has been shrunk uploading it to the forum, the size now is 3840x1498. You need to upload to Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox or other file sharing site, and post the link to it, for us to get the original copy.

John, in this case, the actual size doesn't actually matter; it's the ratio that counts.

5secs pan, FHD 60fps,

@AAProds  What frame rate is the video you posted above?

@Former user

50fps. I see the forum posted it as 30fps.

Here's the original:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13bXLVaWGhCF2J6Q3UwnI-cm40hUbwlmn/view?usp=drive_link

Hi all,

The pan is nice but that tower at the right end is leaning too much. Since this is a photo, it can be fixed so that the tower is vertical.😁

@Former user

...the Bezier is good for smoothing the movement but when panning across right-left it starts slow, speeds up mid way then slows down to the end as it reaches far left, I'd prefer just those two keys to be Linear so you get a consistent pan through the faces.

I agree to a certain extent, that is why I showed the adjustable Bézier curve in VPX. I like to smooth out the start and end so that acceleration to pan speed is quicker. The default Bézier in both VPX and MMS is too slow getting up to speed for my liking. In VPX, just shorten the accel/decel by shortening the line or point until it's acceptable to you. I like it short, closer to the image below. Otherwise it take too long to get up to speed, goes too fast for a short period, then takes too long to decelerate. It's just that subtle smoothing at the beginning and ending that I prefer.

BTW, I showed a 5s pan, which is far too fast for this image that is 3300x1080 adjusted to 1920x1080 (unadjusted 6770x2215). 12 s is better, 14s is even better with a half second start before panning with at least 1s at the end. Each scene is different.

John CB