How to use smartrender and smartcopy with mts files

Petrambijus wrote on 7/25/2017, 2:43 PM

Computer: i5-4670K 3,4 ghz, 8 Gb ram, 64 bit win 10, ssd samsung evo 1 tb drive, free 200Gb, Nvidia GTX770, win 10 creators update.

MAGIX Video Pro x7, 14.0.0.155

Now to the problem. I have few mts files which i want to just cut and join to one movie. Its typical files from camera, 1920 1080, 16000-16500 KB/s (i guess variable?), 29,97 fps, 48kHz stereo 256 Kb/s. H264 MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) h264 Planar 4:2:0 YUV

Timeline i make the same, resolution, fps, AC3 sound. And as i saw about smartrender information there is less than none:

Please note: The AVCHD files contained in the movie must have the same format, i.e. the bit rates (variable or constant), audio formats, image resolutions and video formats must match.

Easy, just make resolution and etc the same and off you go.

So i try export, MPEG-4, feel i must pick AVCHD transport 1920 1080 29,97i, choose it, go to advanced, make bitrates 16000, sound options, check smart copy. Here it gets complicated, no idea what to choose on GOP, CPB, HRD and others. And when i press ok, in the middle of MPEG-4 export there i see new button - "Smart render info...".

When i press it there is empty box and just text at top "Normal rendering is activated. Information on SmartRender or SmartCopy is only available if one of these options is available and selected". So of course when i press ok it takes ages to finish and quality gets worse, because rendering gets done again on those files.

My aim to join files is just make one file out of 2 (for example). No intros, no text nothing, just import mts, and save it as one file without rendering again and losing quality. Later i will watch it on TV. Now i watch too, just don't want 2 separate files.

I just feel it is only option to keep quality intact. Of course i tried exporting various formats, but quality gets worse, or file gets bigger. I decided it is enough without effects and mercalli prodads, just join :).

And one example of how it could be done: if i make timeline 800:600 and try to add hd movie clip, it just asks to apply hd settings to movie, and that's it.

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 7/25/2017, 4:54 PM

Thanks for reposting with the information requested.

. . . . i try export, MPEG-4, feel i must pick AVCHD transport 1920 1080 29,97i, choose it, go to advanced, make bitrates 16000, sound options, check smart copy. Here it gets complicated, no idea what to choose on GOP, CPB, HRD and others. . . . .

The export settings are already optimised for best quality vs file size and it should not be necessary to adjust any other settings in the advanced section other than the Smart copy.

I suspect the bitrate at 16000 is too low - the default (I use the Intel HD export) is Average bitrate 19000, Maximum bitrate 24000. This results in good quality video with files which are not too large.

During export you will see at the top of the progess dialog if Smart copy is being used.

HTH

John EB

Scenestealer wrote on 7/25/2017, 5:49 PM

Hi @Petrambijus

Please note: The AVCHD files contained in the movie must have the same format, i.e. the bit rates (variable or constant), audio formats, image resolutions and video formats must match.

Note that this warning is saying that the clips in the timeline must be identical, not that the export settings must be identical. The export settings should be close however, but how close I can not say. Smart Render is called smart I assume because it can detect unaltered material but how this deals with a difference between this and slightly different export file target specs is unknown.

Whatever - the best thing in your situation is to just use Smart Copy (not Smart Render) as John EB has suggested, the template specs. should become irrelevant then and it will just copy the material in it's original form give or take a possible frame or two at the join.

emmrecs wrote on 7/26/2017, 3:55 AM

Hi.

I'm coming somewhat late to this discussion but can I assume that your two mts files are actually recordings of one "continuous" event and that you are wanting to create one file in order to view the whole event without needing to stop playback of the first and start playback of the second? Peter (Scenestealer's) comment about the possibility of problems with a possible frame or two at the join leads me to think this is his understanding.

If so, can I personally recommend a free utility which I have successfully used to prepare continuous mts files of more than an hour's total duration; as Peter hints, there is often a degree of discontinuity at the point where one file is "closed" and the next is "opened", leading to a visual glitch when you attempt to play them as a continuous event.

tsMuxer is the software. I have used it to "join" up to four consecutive files of the same event, a wedding, in order to create one single file which plays without interruptions. In my case I then imported that file to MEP/VPX in order to edit the final video.

I am a very strong believer in the ease of use and facilities offered by Magix software; in this case, if I have assumed correctly what it is you want to do, I'm not sure that VPX is the best solution.

Jeff

Scenestealer wrote on 7/26/2017, 7:11 AM

Thanks Jeff, that is a useful suggestion. Depending on what @Petrambijus wants to do that is probably the best way if he wants a seamless file but I think he may be happy just to play the 2 files contiguously with the minimum of reworking and rendering, all within MEP.

The discussion as I see it is more about prerequisites for setting up the export for Smart Render and Smart Copy. John and I have suggested that Smart Copy might be the most appropriate and my comment about losing a few frames is due to the fact that Smart Copy can only handle cuts at the start / end of the GOP so if you cut in the middle the GOP in the render the cut will appear to be cut early or late. From experience the audio may be slightly early or late at the cut also, but a few frames different to the picture. Sure renders fast though!

Peter

Petrambijus wrote on 7/26/2017, 1:50 PM

Thanks emmrec, tsmuxer would be best choice, free and small, just did not work with my mts. Well, it even joined files, but it did not play good. Maybe that is older program, few years without updates.

So i'm testing Magix again. At first i think i saw Smart copy being used, but now cannot repeat same. Trying to replicate but so far no Smart copy, 10 times and going for more... Big thanks for your help guys, really appreciated :)

OK, just restarted computer and it works again, looks like johnebaker was right, no big difference what options is, it works fine with defaults. Just tested 384kbs sound, and it just made it 256kbs.

Petrambijus wrote on 7/27/2017, 8:57 AM

There is still some kind of problem, of all clips i can smart join 0-2, then 4-11 but all are made with same options and camera. Looks like lottery, and my plan to just join all did not work.

johnebaker wrote on 7/27/2017, 2:33 PM

. . . . There is still some kind of problem, of all clips i can smart join 0-2, then 4-11 but all are made with same options and camera. . . .

Can you explain more what you mean by this, how you are joining the clips and what is actually going wrong please.

John EB

Petrambijus wrote on 7/29/2017, 11:50 AM

Well i hope you can see, all files the same camera, same options, just bitrate differs a little, but first three files work as smart copy, and when i add 4th, it does not work.

And i later try from 4, 4+5 - works, 4+5+6 works, till 11, if i add 12, it stops working again. Did not have time to experiment more.

johnebaker wrote on 7/29/2017, 4:28 PM

@Petrambijus

Thanks for the clarification - that helps a great deal.

I have the same issue with 1 AVCHD video clip out of 24 I have tested with.

Taking a group of 12 clips with bitrates varying from 11.4 GB/s to 17.2 Gb/s, all from the same camera and identical recording parameters, one clip crashes Smart Copy, except when it is the first clip on the timeline, as you have found, any other position in the sequence of 12 clips it crashes Smart Copy.

At first I thought this may have had something to do with 4th position, however repeating the exercise with an entirely different set of 12 clips, also with a similar bitrate range as the set above, worked flawlessly.

The wide bitrate variation should not make any difference to Smart Copy because the export is also variable bitrate, if the export bitrate was set to fixed then Smart Copy will not work because of recoding.

At this stage I am puzzled as to why this should happen.

John EB