Deinterlacing-How does Magix do it?

AAProds wrote on 7/8/2024, 8:01 PM

Scenario: DV-AVI or Analogue AVI, interlaced.

Options: on the video properties menu, there are now only 3 options: Full frame (no interlacing), BFF of TFF, as well as the "Processing/Interpolate" tickbox.

Question: what does it all mean?

What's the purpose of the droplist? Should that be set on what the source file is or is it used to change the output? eg if I have an interlaced DV-AVI, do I choose Full frame ie for a progressive output, or BFF which is what the source file is? From test I've done, that droplist makes no difference to the output.

What is the purpose of the "Processing" tickbox? Does that force a blend between each field to create a frame?

And what does Magix actually do when it deinterlaces: blend, discard? It obviously doesn't double-rate deinterlace.

I'd love your thoughts on the whole concept of deinterlacing in Magix.

 

 

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

Comments

me_again wrote on 7/9/2024, 12:56 AM

@AAProds

Greetings Al,

I can't answer any of your question regarding the "Processing/Interpolate" tickbox. I have used interpolate images before, it helps jerky movements in video.

One thing I can say though, if I'm using have a 25 fps interlaced video ( I'm a PAL region) and set the project to 50 fps, all frames are used or double rate deinterlaced as you term it.

Easy to check, I use a panning shot. With the project set to 25 fps see how right clicks on the keyboard a fixed point takes to move from A to B.

Set the project to 50 fps and repeat. It should take double the time with smaller movements between frames as per the Lagarith AVI method.

Obviously save at 50fps or all the hard work is lost 😉

AndyW

Last changed by me_again on 7/9/2024, 1:02 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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All Drivers updated as they become available.

Gid wrote on 7/9/2024, 1:41 AM

@AAProds From the Vegas help

I've read these but it's way too early in the day for me, good luck

Wikipedia Progressive scan/noninterlaced scanning

Wikipedia Interlaced video

Wikipedia Deinterlacing

Wikipedia Field (video) interpolate

 

Last changed by Gid on 7/9/2024, 1:54 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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CubeAce wrote on 7/9/2024, 4:02 AM

@AAProds @me_again @Gid

Hi Al.

I would say my experience with interlaced video is almost non existent except for once instance.

When Flickr first allowed video to be uploaded my files which were all progressive suffered badly from jaggies when playing back anything with panning as Andy described, so I got in touch with the Flickr development team and it turned out their uploader was reprocessing video to interlaced output if the file was of a European standard (25 or 50 fps). It was very noticeable and took them a month to sort out but sort it out they did.

So my conclusion is if the header file is read correctly and the export settings set correctly you should not see any tearing during panning (and sometimes even when the camera is still but there is noticeable movement within the frame) if it needs to be exported as interlaced at at all. My suggestion would be to deliberately set the output to the opposite of the file type to see it Magix compensates. I think that should prove whether the header is being read correctly and that the program can successfully re-encode the file without problems.

As for interpolation. I have had issues in the past where using it has made the result worse. My guess is that if using files close to or above 48fps it should not be used. I was always under the impression that an interpolated frame would just be a blend of the prior and post frames which at lower frame rates would produce an image similar to a frame with a slow exposure time would produce making it appear smoother. Another time it can be useful is when making a normal speed video go into slow motion and in plugins like ProDad ReSpeeder you get a choice of how those images are blended.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/9/2024, 4:03 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

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ericlnz wrote on 7/9/2024, 4:56 AM

My 1080 PAL AVCHD camera shoots interlaced as did my previous SD tape camera so I've years of experience with it.

@CubeAce Interpolation is the creation of two separate frames from the two fields of an interlaced frame by estimating what should be there in the missing fields. Obviously the quality of this will depend upon the accuracy that is achieved by software/hardware.

Blending is when the two fields are blended into one frame. Whilst this may be satisfactory with fairly static subjects if there is movement it gives ghosting. Ghosting is different to the combing effect obtained if you do not deinterlace. The ghosting is similar to what you get when you slow down shots on your timeline and have the additional frames produced with resampling which is like a crossframe.

It is often said that hardware, such as your TV's player, does a better job of deinterlacing in real time than most software taking its time. I export AVCHD/Blu-ray for my TV. For most steaming services you need to give them progressive. Until recently I used Handbrake with Decomb and BOB settings to convert my 50i to 50p. The results were acceptable but nowadays having Vegas Pro I use its Smart adaptive Deinterlacing to convert my 50i files. It does a great job. Jagged edges to road markings, sloping roofs etc are now a thing of the past. I don't know if MS and VPX have this.

AAProds wrote on 7/9/2024, 5:40 AM

Thanks all.

Andy, I will do that test.

Gid, That second screenshot from Vegas is what "I think" we should have (or similar).

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 12:38 AM

Master @jagabo from Videohelp has made this interlaced file for me. It shows how Magix processes interlaced files with variations to the movie frame rate and interlace settings (TFF or BFF) in the video object properties.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1De7kb_aY1kjowVi-cQ1CTvnAuZEakA8I/view?usp=sharing

 

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 7/20/2024, 1:50 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al

. . . . It shows how Magix processes interlaced files with variations to the movie frame rate and interlace settings (TFF or BFF) in the video object properties . . . .

Can you clarify how it does this please.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 2:53 AM

@johnebaker

John still gathering my thoughts but so far:

When importing analogue AVI, the video object properties should match the field order of the file. If the file is TFF and you choose BFF, with the movie setting T 50FPS, the frame dance forward/backward will occur resulting in slight jerkiness.

If the frame rate of the movie is set to double the video's framerate, Magix will do a pretty good job at double-rate deinterlacing, where is field is turned into a frame. I compared it with QTGMC and Magix isn't as good.

"Interpolate intermediate images" doesn't seem to have an effect in any scenario.

Magix deinterlacing performance:

Field processing:

Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF. OK, every second field.

Movie setting 50fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF. Good, every field is frame at double frame rate=smoother:

Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to BFF. OK, every second field:

Movie setting 50fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to BFF. Bad, fields jumping back and forth.

 

 

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 2:58 AM

Conclusion: if after best quality, deinterlace outside Magix and import your video as a deinterlaced, double frame rate file..

If happy with Magix, set the movie settings to 50fps, which will give noticeably smoother movement in your video.

Note, none of this is relevant to Progressive video ie from most modern video devices. Doubling the frame rate will merely force Magix to insert a frame to match the previous frame. Motion will not be smoothed out unless the frame rate of the video itself is increased eg with re-speeder or filters such as AVISynth's FrameRateConverter or RIFE.

Last changed by AAProds on 7/20/2024, 3:03 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 7/20/2024, 3:13 AM

Hi Al

Thanks for the clarification.

I also did some testing changing framerate and exporting progressive with and without Interpolation.

Without interpolation it looks like duplication of each frame, and with interpolation on, frame/field blending.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

CubeAce wrote on 7/20/2024, 3:38 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John.

That was my conclusion earlier when I saw results of trying for myself with progressive footage. It's very evident if videoing fast action and then using the scroll wheel on the rendered video once re-imported.

As for using ProDad Respeeder for smoothing out footage. Depending on the footage I have found results to be very variable as it often seems to produce its own artifacts that become more distracting than the original problem.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 7/20/2024, 3:41 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 5:36 AM

@johnebaker

John, interesting. Could you drop me a 59.94i file to have a play with?

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 5:39 AM

@CubeAce

Ray, that Respeeder is awful. I'll steer well clear of that.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

CubeAce wrote on 7/20/2024, 7:01 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al.

It works reasonably well with anything shot at a distance but even then if there is any camera movement the sides of the frame gets weird distortions if the foreground is busy, like bushes, plants, anything with fine detail. The less frames it has to predict, the better the outcome on average. Like I said, the outcome is not predictable. Sometimes it does a good job and other times not so much. I actually prefer to use the respeeder supplied within Magix.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

johnebaker wrote on 7/20/2024, 7:57 AM

@AAProds

Hi Al

. . . . a 59.94i file . . . .

To confirm you would like - a NTSC 29.97 fps interlaced (59.94i) file.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

me_again wrote on 7/20/2024, 8:10 AM

@AAProds

"Interpolate intermediate images" doesn't seem to have an effect in any scenario

Not for the de-interlacing but it does when you slow the clip down. Have the movie settings at 50 fps and reduce the speed to 50% or less (retaining the original Interlace structure) then click through it with the right curser arrow (or whatever it's called)

I use "Interpolate intermediate images" occasionally. It's a good rough and ready tool for family Whatsapp throwaway clips etc.

AndyW

 

Last changed by me_again on 7/20/2024, 8:13 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

"Just when I think I've learned the workrounds of MEP/MS the bounders go and update it"

Aorus Z690 Elite DDR4 Motherboard

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Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4060 Eagle OC 8Gb DDR6 DLSS3 Windforce

Corsair RM750 PSU, be quiet! Pure Rock 2 cooling

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Audio Onboard ALC1220 Amp-Up, Windows 11 Home updated as and when

Movie Studio 2025 Suite, Photo Manager Deluxe 13

Norton 360

All Drivers updated as they become available.

AAProds wrote on 7/20/2024, 8:32 AM

@johnebaker

John, arr, no, I thought you had a 59.94i file. 29.97i translates to 59.94P. 59.94i would double rate to 119.88P.

Your videos are showing each field as a frame, so they are 59.94P (double-rate deinterlaced from 29.97i).

I can't get the interpolate effect to work on a double rate file like you have.

@me_again

Andy, thanks, just tried that and yes, I can see it on a slowed clip. Interestingly, when you tick the "Interpolate" on the speed controller, the box is also ticked on the Video Properties.

 

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 7/20/2024, 2:13 PM

@AAProds

Hi Al

. . . . I thought you had a 59.94i file . . . .

I do, that is a standard NTSC 29.97 fps interlaced video file, by convention the 'i' refers to fields, whereas the 'p' in progressive refers to frames.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Can-Dive wrote on 7/21/2024, 1:16 AM

@AAProds @CubeAce

Al, am I understanding this correctly that with your first example; Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF, the player jumps to every second frame because its displaying each Top field and with your second example of Movie setting 50fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF, the player displays every frame; the top field, then the bottom field, then the next top field etc?

Ray, were you using Prodad Respeedr V1 or the just released Prodad Respeedr V2?

AAProds wrote on 7/21/2024, 1:37 AM

@Can-Dive

Candrive, yes, that's right. At the original frame rate, it looks like Magix keeps whatever field you have set in the Video Properties and "discard"s the other. There's no blending. It doesn't seem to matter which one is kept. Only when you set the frame rate to double will you get both fields, and they must be in the correct order in Video Props eg TFF for a TFF file.

However, I've since found that, for the original frame rate, if you set the Video Props to Full Frame (Non Interlaced), you'll get two fields blended together: 4+5 followed by 6+7 and so on.

For the doubled frame rate, a duplicate frame is inserted eg 1+2 followed by 1+2 followed by 3+4 followed by 3+4.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 7/21/2024, 3:32 AM

@AAProds

Hi

Setting to Full Frame does indeed blend to 2 fields as you can see in the screenshot below

The movement of the car and flag shows the combing clearly due to the time (temporal) differential between the 2 frames.

. . . . it looks like Magix keeps whatever field you have set in the Video Properties and "discard"s the other. . . .

This begs the question - how are the missing field lines replaced?

What i think is happening is the 2 fields are de-interlaced and, where movement is present, interpolated, the interpolation occurring between the field set in the video and the following field, correcting for the temporal (time) difference between the fields.

John EB

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/21/2024, 3:35 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Can-Dive wrote on 7/21/2024, 3:55 AM

@AAProds @johnebaker

Al, for my own edification, if we take your first example; Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF; I note that the fields that appear are 26, 28, 30 etc. If we change the settings to; Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps BFF, Video properties set to BFF; will the sequence of numbers be 27, 29, 31 etc?

John EB, by setting Full frame, isn't the "blend" just simply adding the the top field + bottom field to create one full frame? What field lines would be missing unless you mean how are the missing fields lines replaced after the video is deinterlaced? In that case, I guess that is where all the different blending algorithms and methods come into play.

AAProds wrote on 7/21/2024, 4:22 AM

@Can-Dive

Al, for my own edification, if we take your first example; Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps TFF, Video properties set to TFF; I note that the fields that appear are 26, 28, 30 etc. If we change the settings to; Movie setting 25fps, file 25fps BFF, Video properties set to BFF; will the sequence of numbers be 27, 29, 31 etc?

Candive, yes, that's correct.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

johnebaker wrote on 7/21/2024, 6:09 AM

@Can-Dive

Hi

. . . . isn't the "blend" just simply adding the top field + bottom field to create one full frame?

That is correct, hence the combing you see in the image I posted.

Splitting your question into 2 parts:

. . . . What field lines would be missing . . . .

If, for example, Top field is selected and the bottom field is 'discarded' ie not used to create the image, you would have the 'odd' or 'even' lines only and the raw image would look something like this:

 

. . . how are the missing fields lines replaced after the video is deinterlaced? . . . .

This is what de-interlacing does, see this Wiki article Deinterlacing methods section for more info.

@AAProds mentioned QTMC which, AFAICS can do all 3 different methods depending on the options used.

John EB

Last changed by johnebaker on 7/21/2024, 6:10 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.