@browj2

Hi John, first of all, thank you for taking the time to assist me.

Here are screen shots of the issue;

I only have one path to the VST's and they only contain RX 10 plug-ins, Ozone 11 Elements and SpectraLayers.

With regards to your problem with jumpy play back in SpectraLayers, before I can answer your question, would you please define "Arranger"? Do you mean the playback along the main "Track" in Audio Cleaning Lab?

@Can-Dive

Hi,

I see what you mean. I have the same and I cannot find a way to have something else by default. I went through about a hundred ini files and couldn't find where Magix has put this. It seems to be a default put there by Magix as I have the same thing in SFACL3.

I suggest that you raise this with Magix.

Arranger = Timeline, where you do the arranging. Magix uses the two interchangeably depending on the program. In DAWs, like Music Maker, they user Arranger. In SFACL, they don't specifically call the track area the arranger, but they call the overall window above the arranger that can be turned off/on, the timeline. Either way, that is where you see the playback marker.

BTW, before right-clicking on an object, you have to put an audio object on the Arranger/Timeline.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John, thanks for confirming the default issue. Sorry you had to go through so many ini files without coming up with a solution. I will definitely log a Support ticket with Magix.

Regarding the jumpy playback in SpectraLayers, I can confirm that I can replicate the issue at my end. Unfortunately I also have been able to produce the dreaded "101 Error"!

As I continued to research these issues, I came across a number of similar posts. I have obviously found a can of worms which others have previously opened. Your excellent video, details all the issues related to the current version of Audio Cleaning Lab 4.

https://www.magix.info/us/forum/error-message--1332204/#ca1903997

While the jumpy playback in SpectraLayers is definitely a bug, after testing the program, I'm not sure I would personally use it as a plug-in for Audio Cleaner 4. I would probably use it as a stand alone program because in terms of audio cleanup and enhancement it essentially servers a similar purpose as Audio Cleaner 4. It has cleanup processes like Audio Cleaner 4 such as noise and hum reduction and click repair. It also allows access to to the iZotope VST's plug-ins. So depending on your personal preference, you could use either program.

I can confirm that Audio Cleaning Lab 4 and SpectraLayers can not be used as external audio editors for wav files within Magix Movie Studio 2024.

I can confirm that Audio Cleaning Lab 4, SpectraLayers and Music Editor 3 (that came with MMS 2024) do work as external audio editors with Vegas Pro 19 (Unfortunately I do not own Vegas 21). The 101 error does appear but the waveform is on the Timeline/Arranger.

@Can-Dive

Hi,

Thanks for confirming the various issues.

There is another issue that I brought to the attention of Magix concerning voiceover and the automatic placement of markers when pauses exceeded a predetermined limit, and that often, the cut would be placed after the first pause and the rest would be excluded. They confirmed the problem. That said, I use a workaround that does what I want.

Despite these problems and annoyances, the program does work well.

As for SpectraLayers, you should read up on what you can do with it. It can cleanup problems that other plugins cannot. SFACL comes with the Magix spectral cleaner which is relatively easy to use, but certain problems are difficult to resolve. SpectraLayers can usually resolve these much better. These problems are for sudden unwanted noises, a single click, horn, door slamming, or some other background non-continuous noise that needs to be reduced or eliminated. And more.

I now have the full version of SpectraLayers 10 so I have a lot to learn. It came with Samplitude Pro X8 Suite.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John,

I'm not sure if I replicated your voice over pause issue but I will outline my test workflow and share my results with you. Note; I initiated my tests with default settings.

First, using another editor, I created a voice wav file. Basically, I repeated a short phrase 5 times pausing 5 seconds before repeating the phrase. I numbered each phrase so that I could hear which paragraph was being spoken. So at the end of the recording, I had a file containing 5 phrases with 4 - five second pauses between each phrase.

I imported the wav file into Audio Cleaning Lab 4 and selected "set track markers automatically" The markers were set but phrase 5 (the last one) was deleted by the system for some unknown reason.

I then created another wav file. This time the pauses were around 2 seconds. The results of setting track markers automatically was even worse with a number of phrases being deleted. I noted that "Options for track recognition" played a role in all this to fine tune the placing of the track markers but the system shouldn't arbitrarily delete sections of the track!

Using Audio Cleaning Lab 4 to capture my voice, I went through the same routine repeating the phrases 5 times with 5 second pauses, numbering each phrase.  Essentially after the first phrase everything was subsequently deleted. I then lengthened the minimum pause length setting from the default 1500 ms to 5000 ms and was able to capture all phrases. Unfortunately setting track markers automatically, only set a marker at the beginning. I then reset the minimum pause length to 1500 ms (default) and then automatically set the track markers. Only the first paragraph remained; the other 4 were deleted by the system!

If I reduced the pauses to 3 seconds, all paragraphs were captured but the setting of track markers only placed 2 markers between the first and second phrase and the 4th and 5th phrase even if I reduced the minimum pause length to only 100 ms. 

With all this testing I came up with a standard test dialog which anyone can replicate;

One
Testing one, two, three
Testing one, two, three
Testing one, two, three

Pause (from one to 5 seconds)

Two
Testing one, two, three
Testing one, two, three
Testing one, two, three.

Pause

This is repeated up to 5 times.

John, let me know if this is the issue you were experiencing? I also tested the automatic stop recording after a silent period. My tests indicated that the system stopped recording after about 30 seconds.
 

@browj2

Just an update to my test workflow. My phrases may have been too short. I lengthened them to a count of 40 each and got better results. The system also automatically allocated markers before each phrase. But, for some reason the last phrase gets deleted.

So the test dialog went like this;

One, Testing one, two, three, four...40

Pause

Two, Testing one, two, three, four...40

etc.

@Can-Dive

Hi,

Thanks for the great organized testing. Yes, this is the issue but there is more.

I just tested recording 4 long phrases, markers to be set if 2000ms pauses. I got 1 marker at the third part, one, two and four were deleted.

I started with all of the options, Voice, Vinyl, Tape... at 6s then modified to 12s and I adjusted the min. value downwards to -70dB. Same result.

To get the whole recording, drag the left end to the start if cut off, and the right end to the end if cut off.

Remove any markers. With the object selected, CD from the top menu, Set track marker automatically. You should get the same result as when the recording was done. In my case, I got only the third narration with a marker, the other parts deleted.

Next test, and this is why I mentioned a workaround. Get the full length back on the arranger. Remove any track markers. Select object. Edit, Remove pauses, adjust the parameters if necessary. I kept -40dB for silence and min. length of 2000ms. Bingo. You get all parts individually with the pauses removed. Right click in blank area of the track or CD in top menu, Set track marker to object edges. Done.

So, rather than setting "Auto CD track recognition" in the recording settings, uncheck it. Either add track markers manually or use remove pauses, add track markers to object edges.

Now you can edit the track marker names and export all to individual files. Or, move the objects over to insert spaces the length that you want. Or, with spaces added, maybe drag the start of each object to the left to get a slight pause at the beginning with background sound - adjust track marker if necessary. Then export.

Hmmm. Maybe another bug or I don't understand what this is supposed to do. Under CD, Set auto pause length, 2000ms by default, new project, import wave files. I tried importing one at a time and several at a time. I was expecting an automatic 2s pause between files; I got 0s.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John, thanks for the feedback. Now I get it!

The system is not actually deleting sections of the wave form, its just trimming it for some reason when markers are applied. We are not actually losing parts of the recording which is a good thing. I was able to replicate this apply marker/trimming issue in Music Editor 3 (MM3). The copywrite on MM3 is 2010 so this issue has been outstanding for a very long time. I'm surprised they have yet to fix it.

I confirmed your workaround.
1: Set the markers manually. Click on the timeline to move the curser into position and hit the M key.
2: The faster method is to remove the pauses and then add track markers to object edges.
3: A third way is to manually split the waveform into objects. Click on the timeline to move the curser into position and hit the T key. Then add track markers to object edges. 

John, I can confirm that you did find another bug regrading setting the auto pause length upon import of wave files. This feature works as you expect in MM3 so along the way someone broke it.

One pleasant surprise I found with the program is the ability to import digital streaming. So one can easily play a song on YouTube and import it using the Digital tab. Ensure the output box is ticked. Also the program has the ablility to record internet radio and has a vast selection of channels. Unfortunately many of the channels are now defunct and should be removed. As users, we do not have the ability to edit the channels or categroies so this cleanup would have to be conducted by Magix. It would be a nice enhancement if we did have this ability. I can confirm that copy and pasting url's of the radio stations I listen to (not listed) in favourites does work. You can also edit the Favourites list via its xml file: 

C:\ProgramData\SOUND FORGE\SOUND FORGE Audio Cleaning Lab 4\WebRadio\WebRadioFav.xml

It looks like the other stations are stored in a msf file which I am not familiar with. 

John thanks for giving me the heads up regarding obtaining the full version of Spectralayers Pro 10 via the Samplitude Suite. Once I become more familiar with Music Maker and Spectralayers Elements this may be a future upgrade for me since it appears Samplitude is the big brother to Music Maker.

Interestingly Sound Forage Audio Cleaner Lab 4 did not originate with Sonic/Sony but is a Magix product. I suppose they had to allocate it to some audio family and Sound Forage was the best fit. I guess it also allows an upgrade path to Sound Forage Pro if desired.

John, thanks again for all your help with these bugs!
 

@browj2

We covered a lot of issues in this post I thought I would summarise the bugs/issues;

1. SFACL4 Bug - Error 101 popup box
2. SFACL4 Bug - Changing Default VSTs does not save preferred VSTs
3. SFACL4 Bug - Spectralayers plugin does not move in time with Playback marker
4. SFACL4 Bug - Switching audio editors within MMS2024 or VPX may lead to no waveform showing up. Need to delete HO and HDP temp files
5. SFACL4 Bug - Automatically adding markers inadvertantly trims waveforms
6. SFACL4 Bug - Importing wave files ignores auto pause lengths (works in MME3)
7. SFACL4 Cleanup - Defunct Radio stations need to be deleted or allow users this ability.
8. SFACL4/MMS2024 Bug - AFACL4 does not work as external audio editor in MMS2024 or VPX (works in Vegas Pro)
9. SFACL4/MMS2024 Bug - Spectralayers does not work as external audio editor in MMS2023 or VPX (works in Vegas Pro)
 

Let me know if I missed any....

@Can-Dive

Hi,

Excellent summary! I think that you have them all.

For point 2, you may want to mention that the third party plugins RX 8 and Ozone 9 Elements showing by default, may not even be available for the user.

Point 8 - Since SFACL (not AFACL) can be used as the external audio editor with Vegas, this means that it is opening the wave file. With MMS/VPX, they are sending the HDP file to the external audio editor to be opened, not the wave file, which is why SFACL4 doesn't work and why most other audio editors don't work as an external audio editor. Thus, the problem is with the video editors MMS/VPX. They should be sending the wave file if an HDP is not available, or just the wave file. I think that this could get complicated as the HDP file should be modified upon return to the video editor - your point 4. SFACL3 and before, ME3, and Samplitude Pro Xx Suite create HDP files whereas other audio editors do not.

SpectraLayers opens in MMM with a right-click as it is an ARA plugin and that is how it gets used. If you have Melodyne, it is also ARA and can be opened from the right-click menu. I have it and it suffers from the same problem of the playback marker not moving in time with the host's (SFACL4) playback marker.

The manual notes that

When using ARA plug-ins such as SpectraLayers or Melodyne, it is recommended to use WASAPI drivers because they work with considerably lower latencies.

I switched from my M-Audio ASIO driver to WASAPI Output (M-Audio M-Track) and it made no difference to the playback problem with SpectraLayers.

OT - I came across a video yesterday in which the author showed how to reduce the volume of peaks and increase the volume of lower parts of a recording. He noted that this made compression easier. I have been manually reducing the peaks in my recordings using the volume curve along with compression. I tried this method and it works very well - a great time-saver for me. Unfortunately, it can't be done in MMS/VPX as they don't have ARA capability.

I played around with Samplitude Pro X8 Suite yesterday, to see if the Voice Over recording/marker problem was resolved. I couldn't find a similar procedure of having markers show up automatically after a defined min. pause. I could strip silences, which splits the object and then automatically place markers at the beginning of the objects, like in SFACL. Unlike SFACL, removing the silent parts leaves gaps. Samplitude has an adjustment for what constitutes silence and the end of silence.

John CB

@browj2

I plan to log these with Support even though reading old posts some of these bugs have been outstanding for over a year! I'm sure others have logged these bugs but hopefully a squeaky wheel gets oiled. Just curious, approximately when was the last update for the program?

I read some forum members, in frustration, reverted to the 32 bit version. I wonder if one can install the 32 bit version along side the 64 bit version to compare results without any conflicts. I know Corel Paintshop Pro allowed users to install both versions to run old plugins which didn't work in the 64 bit version.

@Can-Dive

Hi,

I raised a ticket at the beginning of December, 2022, not 2023, but 2022 about the 101 error. I raised another ticket about this and some other things, mostly as a reminder. The last exchange with Magix on this was Oct. 25, 2023. Nothing has been done.

I pointed out to Magix over a year ago that having things like an error on startup is a definite turn-off for new and current users looking to upgrade. If they want to sell their products, they cannot afford to leave an obvious startup error unrepaired for any length of time. Fix the bugs, especially bugs that are obvious to most users.

I don't know about the 32 bit version or even of its existence in the recent version, only older versions. I use VST3 plugins, so a 32 bit version would be useless for me, I would expect.

On the positive side, take a look at the top menu, Share. You can send whatever is on the Arranger to MMS/VPX and it will show up on track 5. SFACL exports the entire arrangement to a wave file. If the video editor is open, it will show up at the location of the playback marker but on track 5. If any other track is selected (blue track header on), then the audio file won't show up.

John CB