Alpha-channel hardware acceleration

Scenestealer wrote on 4/21/2017, 5:51 PM

Hi

Some detail would be helpful.

Which version of VPX? Some details about the alpha objects - containers and codecs - which program created them. How are you measuring whether the GPU is being used? Which Program Settings (Y key) have you selected for playback. Do you have an Intel GPU as well and is it active?

Ss

prodj wrote on 4/22/2017, 8:06 AM

Hi

Some detail would be helpful.

Which version of VPX?

8 version

Some details about the alpha objects - containers and codecs - which program created them.

I've tried different codecs. First of all I've tried to key objects in AE and then export them with alpha channel in quick time (both jpeg2000 and png). Then I've tried to simply key that videos with the internal magix chroma key plugin. I've tried to use proxy too..

How are you measuring whether the GPU is being used?

I have a small program, that shows video card cores loading. It definitely doesn't work during playback.

Which Program Settings (Y key) have you selected for playback.

Standard mode (Direct3D, hardware acceleration)

Do you have an Intel GPU as well and is it active?

I've got 4790k processor. It has Intel® HD Graphics 4600, but I don't know if it is active or not. All my video monitors are pluged in my NVidia card.

Thanks for your help!

johnebaker wrote on 4/22/2017, 9:20 AM

Hi

. . . . First of all I've tried to key objects in AE and then export them with alpha channel in quick time (both jpeg2000 and png) . . . .

What objects - still images or video ?

. . . . 4790k processor. It has Intel® HD Graphics 4600, but I don't know if it is active or not. All my video monitors are pluged in my NVidia card. . . .

Check the Program settings, Display options, Video mode options to see if the Intel GPU is being used.

John EB

prodj wrote on 4/22/2017, 9:45 AM

. .
What objects - still images or video ?

Full HD videos

Check the Program settings, Display options, Video mode options to see if the Intel GPU is being used.

There is no mentioning about intel GPU

John EB

johnebaker wrote on 4/22/2017, 11:43 AM

Hi

. . . . There is no mentioning about intel GPU . . . .

Minimalistic responses are not very conducive to us trying to help you - more detail would help - see this topic.

What options do you have in the display settings?

John EB

prodj wrote on 4/22/2017, 6:14 PM

What options do you have in the display settings?

Scenestealer wrote on 4/22/2017, 6:23 PM

John has made a good point about detail. Maybe focus on one file type that is not working and analyse it with Media Info app. then post the text breakdown of the file characteristics.

I have a small program, that shows video card cores loading.

Is the program GPU-Z? There is a dropdown at the bottom of the sensors window which will switch between the two GPU's to show the respective loadings if the Intel iGPU is being utilised. On my machine it shows a noticeable increase on the iGPU when one of the still overlay (.tga) objects from the VPX media pool is added.

Check the Program settings, Display options, Video mode options to see if the Intel GPU is being used.

If no choice is present here then you may need to activate the Intel graphics in Bios and / or plug one of you monitors into the DVI or HDMI on the MoBo.

Peter

prodj wrote on 4/23/2017, 8:04 AM

John has made a good point about detail. Maybe focus on one file type that is not working and analyse it with Media Info app. then post the text breakdown of the file characteristics.

Ok. I can render any type of file in the AE - just tell me which is the best for VPX. Or (maybe it will be better for now, just to find out if the hardware acceleration is working) I can simply take my raw files from camera (QuickTime video, h264, 1920*1080, 25fps, 48025kbps) and apply magix chroma key plugin on them.

Is the program GPU-Z? There is a dropdown at the bottom of the sensors window which will switch between the two GPU's to show the respective loadings if the Intel iGPU is being utilised. On my machine it shows a noticeable increase on the iGPU when one of the still overlay (.tga) objects from the VPX media pool is added.

No, I've used the program, that came with my video card - Palit Thunder Master. I didn't think, that integrated video can work better, than video card with 2k+ cuda processors...

Check the Program settings, Display options, Video mode options to see if the Intel GPU isbeing used.If no choice is present here then you may need to activate the Intel graphics in Bios and / or plug one of you monitors into the DVI or HDMI on the MoBo.

OK, I've checked my BIOS settings, and yes - my iGPU was disabled. I've turned it on, and even pluged one of my video monitors in it. Now, I can choose in VPX program settings between my NVIDIA GTX 980 and Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600. But turning iGPU on in the video mode menu doesn't change anything - VPX can not play several videos with alpha-channel nor videos with the chroma key plugin at the same time.

johnebaker wrote on 4/23/2017, 8:28 AM

Hi

@ Peter

IIRC you published a list of compatible graphics cards for MEP and VPX - was the GTX 980 on the list?

. . . . VPX can not play several videos with alpha-channel nor videos with the chroma key plugin at the same time . . . .

It can however with that amount of processing needed it will be very jerky and may even appear to stall.

Try rendering the timeline using the lightning icon shown below

This will give smooth playback - note: after rendering any changes you make in the rendered range will require re-rendering again for smooth playback.

HTH

John EB

prodj wrote on 4/23/2017, 10:00 AM

Try rendering the timeline using the lightning icon shown below

Yeah, I'm using this option all the time.. but in my opinion it is not the way it should work! Just 5 videos with alpha channel playing in the same time! It's not so hard for a modern computer. So my guess - it is a problem with my codecs or with my program settings. That's why I'm asking here.

BTW the strange thing is - when I'm pressing this flash-light button, it suggests me to automatically find all critical areas. And guess what? It doesn't find any :) So, even VPX knows, that there is nothing critical-heavy in my project)

johnebaker wrote on 4/23/2017, 2:40 PM

Hi

. . . . Just 5 videos with alpha channel playing in the same time! It's not so hard for a modern computer. So my guess - it is a problem with my codecs or with my program settings. . . . .

On the contrary 5 videos + Alpha channel is processor intensive.

Simpler effects such as Picture in Picture where resizing only takes place and is less processor intensive than Alpha channel / Chromakey can result in jerky playback when you have 5 tracks of video as shown below

Video Pro X running on Windows 10 64bit, Intel i5-4670K 3.4 GHz, 16Gb RAM with Hardware Acceleration used during playback, 5 tracks Full HD AVCHD video using Proxy files.

. . . . to automatically find all critical areas. And guess what? It doesn't find any :) So, even VPX knows, that there is nothing critical-heavy in my project . . .

From experience what it thinks is critical and reality are two different things - it does not always pick up some critical areas.

Here is the same timeline as above playback with pre-render applied.

John EB

prodj wrote on 4/23/2017, 4:11 PM

Thanks, John.

Pre-reneder means, that VPX simply did temporary export of the selected area. Of course it's playing fine. But it is hard to work when you have to render every time you've made an edit. Your first video (without pre-render) looks absolutely like my case.. It seems, that hardware acceleration doesn't work at all. You can try to turn it off and you will see no difference during playback. That's really strange...

johnebaker wrote on 4/23/2017, 5:08 PM

Hi

. . . . it is hard to work when you have to render every time you've made an edit . . . .

I agree totally.

Perhaps I was not clear on the second example - the Auto range detect came up with no critical areas in the clip, yet as you can see from the rendered example there definitely was a critical area.

. . . . It seems, that hardware acceleration doesn't work at all . . . .

Certainly with the Intel integrated graphics it works for me - here is the same timeline as the first video in my example with HWA turned off - note the longer preload time and playback rate is down to about 1 frame per sec.

HTH

John EB

prodj wrote on 4/23/2017, 5:22 PM

that's all sounds wierd.. how can it be possible, that big gtx980 doesn't make any advantage over small internal intel gpu?! Or if there is any special gpus that works better with VPX? I've asked on another forum and I was told, that it should not be a problem to play 5 videos with alpha-channel on my hardware. But.. in premiere:(

johnebaker wrote on 4/24/2017, 5:06 AM

Hi

. . . . how can it be possible, that big gtx980 doesn't make any advantage over small internal intel gpu . . . .

Size is not everything - the GTX980 may have a lot of grunt in terms of processing power for gaming, however video editing is a different ball game.

I dumped NVidia and AMD graphics cards in favour of the Intel integrated graphics better speed and quality when rendering.

Check that the GPU is being used for Hardware Acceleration - create a short movie and export it as mp4 - you should see the word Hardware acceleration or CUDA at the top of the export progress pane as shown below.

If you do not see this then the GTX 980 is not being used or does not have CUDA support in the drivers.

John EB.

Scenestealer wrote on 4/24/2017, 8:02 AM

Hi

The GTX980 is as good as any Nvidia card from the last 4 years or so but forget about CUDA as it is no longer used for GPU encoding and has never been used for Timeline preview Hardware Acceleration in Magix software. Preview will be accelerated by the GTX980 via Direct Compute and Direct X which is using the parallel processing power of the GPU on many effects in the Media Pool including PinP and Chroma key. This also comes into play during export if the "Calculate Video effects on GPU" is selected during a software encode.

This is demonstrated by John's embedded video examples and a similar test on my overclocked i7 @ 4.6GHz with a GTX1060 selected for preview, can play buttery smooth - 5 PinP's of 1080P 50fps AVCHD all with sound, full screen at full resolution ie without activating the lightning bolt smooth playback button. GPU-Z shows around 50% GPU load with this test, and no load with HWA for Preview turned off (with the CPU fan going crazy).

The same 5 tracks with Chroma key (and no PinP) on all, fare worse with a slowdown in frame rate until the "blue flash" button is activated, and without HWA becomes a crawl.

Of course not all effects are optimised for HWA nor all to the same extent. Also if the CPU gets overloaded and can not process the frames in time for the GPU then GPU load will drop off. Also the extent of HWA is dependant on the codec and file type with most of the optimisations being for MPEG4 H264, and now H265, so you may not see much benefit on say jpeg2000 which is a less complex less compressed format.

Size is not everything - the GTX980 may have a lot of grunt in terms of processing power for gaming, however video editing is a different ball game.

Too true - they are different processes.....and there are benefits from the Graphics chip being on the same die as the CPU in terms of passing information back and forth rapidly during parallel processing.

Taking into account the above, I can not think why you can not see evidence of HWA with your Nvidia or Intel GPU during preview. Is your CPU maxed out and have you tried reducing the resolution with the blue flash button or reducing the number of keyed tracks being played back until the preview smoothes out?

This is an unsubstantiated hunch, as I do not do much with the MOV container, but I have always thought Magix handles this worse than AVCHD .mts files........?

Peter