Vasco da Gama - Travel Route Animation - example & questions

browj2 schrieb am 23.01.2014 um 01:20 Uhr

I received Vasco da Gama 5 (VdG) with one of the earlier versions of MEP and have since upgraded to version 8. This is an alternative to using the Travel Route Animation in MEP and contains many more features. However, Travel Route uses OpenStreetmap, whereas detailed street maps are an add-on to VdG. I have a few questions at the end of this post.

Here are a couple of quick and dirty short test videos I did of walking routes using VdG 8; part of my learning process.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgozpjk3ldf71rd/Test%20VdG%20routes.MP4

For the first part, I imported a jpeg map into VdG from OpenStreetmap (obtained while using the Travel Route Animation in MEP and exporting the map). For the second part, I did a print screen of a Google satellite image, imported into Xara, cropped it and saved it as a jpg, and then imported it into VdG. I have since installed Google earth and can save images from it. Both videos were separate projects. I reduced the maps quite a bit in VdG so as to not be distorted too much as VdG wraps the map on the globe, and moved them to the approximate locations. I cannot reduce them to the size to actually fit over the area in VdG as the resolution of VdG is limited and zooming in is at a maximum well before the area I want to work with. I just wanted to use the tools in VdG to create a route .

For each case, I create my route and added the walker, a couple of objects, like the house, lighthouse, flag and a tree, along with some text. I set up the route with walking time, delay at a waypoint, fade in and out, etc., set up the camera positions and finally exported  as wmv files.  I finished up both in MEP2014 and added in a photo that appears at a waypoint.

A few problems/solutions with VdG:

  1. I lost some resolution and slight colour change with the satellite image.
  2. To resize the map whilst keeping the proportions, hold the Ctrl down while dragging. I did not do this in the current video and found out afterwards.
  3. The idea in VdG is to be able to stretch the imported map over the globe to fit. But in my case I could not do it because of the low detail of VdG globe when zoomed in. Otherwise, I would have a better solution to point 5 below.
  4. Because of how small I made the imported map and the level of zoom to be able to work with it, I had a problem with the size of the text. I could not make it any smaller as I had reduced it to 1%. The zoom levels are different in the 2 projects as a result the minimum text size in the lighthouse video is smaller than in the other video. An option would be to do the text part in MEP. I did another test and did not reduce the imported image so much, and I was able to get the text proportionately smaller.
  5. By adding a pitch to the image, I was able to better have a 3D effect with the walker, but I the areas beyond the  edges of the imported map are visible. A solution may be one or two more adjoining maps or to stitch some together so I don't lose anymore resolution.
  6. I did not try to get a Google 3D image (not stereo) by tilting the map before copying it, so the tilt or pitch is done in VdG and does not show any relief on the terrain. A pitched view from Google Earth would probably have to be just right for the viewpoint for the entire route. The objects would have to be tilted back to be seen.

More testing required.

Has anyone done anything similar and has some hints and experiences to share?

Has anyone purchased and used the streetmaps available from Motions Studios for VdG? Do they extend into the countryside everywhere? Are they worth the price in your opinion or would one be better off trying to use Google or imported maps like I did?

Thanks,

Zuletzt geändert von browj2 am 23.01.2014, 01:20, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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Kommentare

terrypin schrieb am 23.01.2014 um 11:34 Uhr

Hi John,

A very interesting topic for me, assuming we broaden it a bit, and I suspect it could get quite long!

I received Vasco da Gama 5 (VdG) with one of the earlier versions of MEP and have since upgraded to version 8. This is an alternative to using the Travel Route Animation in MEP and contains many more features.

Was v5 a bundled promotion of some sort?

From what little research I've done, VdG looks very expensive. What did v8 cost? But I've also seen several sites that appear to offering free downloads, presumably risky peer-to-peer methods.

However, Travel Route uses OpenStreetmap, whereas detailed street maps are an add-on to VdG.

Are they pricey too?

Here are a couple of quick and dirty short test videos I did of walking routes using VdG 8; part of my learning process.

Nicely done. Wish I could roller-skate through the woods that smoothly.

Apart from the travel animation wizard in MEP, I don't have VdG. So I can't really help with your operational problems over resolution etc unless I can somehow try to reproduce your steps. BTW, what makes you think I have VdG version 4? Where is that specified?

Broadening the discussion a bit...

I'm a great believer in trying to do as much within MEP as possible. I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to invest much effort into learning new tools (age!) - I'd rather be creating new videos. Even the MEP plugins like Heroglyph, Pixelan and Adorage etc seem to require more time than their results justify IMO so far.

In particular I've not used the Travel Anlmation Wizard (TWA) for a couple of years. Virtually all my projects contain maps, sometimes a score of them as in my recently finished DVD covering our holiday walking the Offas Dyke Path. And most include an animated route, but (with the exception of a slightly ponderous technique with my image editor based on 'revealing' the track as a separate layer) they've all been done with KFA. Re-visiting the TWA just now, it seems improved somewhat, so I'm going to get back into it.

However, its greatest disadvantage seems to be that I'm stuck with the built-in maps. They're pretty good and I reckon cover many users' needs. But I use mainly OS 1:25k for my UK walks and a variety for walks and tours abroad, especially Google Earth (and to a lesser extent Google Maps in Map mode) and Memory-Map in 3D mode, plus others.

As an example, prompted by your post (I'll blame you for today's lower productivity!) I arbitrarily chose a finished walk

 

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/20130428ForestRow.jpg

 

and tried in TWA to do the one thing that I'm unable to do with KFA, namely draw a continuous route. But I quickly came to a path that was on my own OS map but not in TWA's map. As you see, mine is much more detailed.

 

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/VdG-01.jpg

From your comments, it sounds that even the latest and greatest (and expensive) independent VdG programs wouldn't have the flexibility I want. In short, that is to draw a smooth track on any image and export a video of it.

BTW, if you have questions on specific GE tasks, I may be able to help. I use all sorts of GE stuff, including tilting, turning, zooming, etc, as well as plain 2D top down maps. Sometimes with superimposed overlays of conventional maps if that is appropriate.

A couple of questions about TWA:

1. No Undo facility?

2. What is the function of the blue rectangle on the left of each point's box? Is it merely another way of switching to edit mode for renaming the location?

Edit 1: After looking briefly at this tutorial...

... I see what you mean about the difficulty of fitting to the global map. It's the same when trying to fit an overlay in GE.

Edit 2: One great work around to the map inflexibilty issue would be possible if the TWA 'map' could be switched to a solid coloured (or transparent) rectangle, retaining the route. It could then be carefully superimposed over the user's own map.

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

 

 

 

 

Zuletzt geändert von terrypin am 23.01.2014, 12:06, insgesamt 7-mal geändert.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 23.01.2014 um 21:17 Uhr

Hi Terry,

You are right, this gets long, but interesting.

Q: Was v5 a bundled promotion of some sort?
A: I looked back at the invoices and I received VdG5 as part of a special deal for  PhotoStory2013 with which I also which I got Photo Manager MX Deluxe, and Xara Photo & Graphic Designer 2013, and VdG5. I also had an additional discount coupon. So this would explain why you probably don't have VdG. I have since upgrade to Xara DPX9 and I think that Photo Manager 12 came with something else.

Q: VdG looks very expensive. What did v8 cost?
A: I had registered VdG5 Pro and recently received an upgrade offer to VdG8 Pro for 75€, which included EarthMaps Adventure (currently 99€ - too expensive in my opinion). Motion Studios is currently selling VdG8 Pro for 149€, Advanced for 99€. The Pro version allows setting up 10 independent routes simultaneously plus it supports creation in HD Ultra and 4k, importing GPS tracking routes and a few other goodies over the Advanced version. There is a comparison table on their site. Yes, it is expensive, which is why I only purchased when on sale. I wouldn't buy from a discount site, too risky and no support.

Q: The detailed price maps, are they pricey too?
A: Yes, which is why I want to know just to what level of detail they go. Watching a tutorial, I saw quickly in the Streetmaps menu a 1:50k and then 1:250k and more maps. I did not notice a 1:25k.

Q: Concerning TRA (Travel Route Animation to use Magix terminology)

  1.  No Undo - Yes there is. See the illustration below. You use the list to remove or  move points. Turn on the pin at the point then drag the point.  To insert a point, click on Set manually or M to insert a point on a line, then drag it to another location. I modified the map that you see below from the saved version without problem.
  2. The blue rectangle is so you know which point you are working with.
  3. I can't see any possibility to switch the map to a solid or transparent rectangle. Would be a good feature. Magix should consider adding this with the possibility to turn off the map but leave everything else.



Or for more clarity:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux03m3lzkmja63q/TRA%20explanation1.jpg

Discussion

With TRA, you cannot import your own map; with VdG you can. I looked at some tutorials today, all in German, and I understood a few more possibilities.

  1. It would seem that the VdG Streetmaps are high resolution maps with layers that can be turned off and on, similar to GE (Google Earth). From my understanding of one tutorial, you set up in Streetmaps the view that you want, export it, then open VdG and import it. It can then be resized and correctly positioned and blended with the satellite globe.
  2. Or, and here is the eureka moment, create a solid background in Paint, 1200x1200, turquoise for example. Save it as a png. Open VdG and import it as a new map, resize it to completely cover the world map, make it opaque, and you will now have a blue earth. Turn off the sun effect. Import your own map, or the map prepared from Streetmaps, and resize it down to something that can still be zoomed in on and not be distorted too much by wrapping it on the globe. You now have your own map that you can incline and see water or a solid colour all around. See the linked video showing the walking route on an island. I have a bit more work to do on it before I will be satisfied enough to bring it into MEP. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rx9gtbmafdfub98/Ile%20d%27entr%C3%A9e.wmv
  3. Or just use a black  or any colour solid background and bring your map it.
  4. If you have a high resolution map to import, all the better. See what I did with your walking map. I gave you a younger look (as I did for me) except that we have more hair, and gave us a spritely step. BTW, that was a hiker not a skater in the other video. It just looks like he is skating or skiing because of the speed that I gave him. Speed is the problem with the video of your walk that I made, also some camera angles could be better, but it was quick and dirty. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bqjdlqbpxjezoz/Terry%27s%20forest%20walk.wmv
  5. Now you can use all of the features of VdG to create your route and annotate it, and finally finish it off in MEP.


That said, I think I will watch for a sale on the VdG Streetmaps but continue for now with GE maps. Learning how to use VdG was a bit of a pain, but once you know how you can really fly. It is not difficult, it's just that it was not obvious at first.

Some additional features of VdG:

  • Resizing and changing objects at waypoints
  • Turning objects at waypoints
  • Braking and accelerating to and from waypoints
  • Different line types, colours, and textures, some with objects with adjustable spacing
  • Easy ability to rotate, shift, tilt and zoom
  • Text that be moved in 3D
  • 3D objects - resizing, 3D moving
  • 3D and 2D monuments, buildings, landmarks
  • Camera views along the route that can be changed, zoomed, rotated, tilted, with additional views inserted for better control
  • Route line smoothing
  • Fading and scaling objects and text

Here is a question for you about GE: how can I turn winter into summer and summer into winter? Unlucky me, one of the islands that we were on in the summertime is snow-covered in GE, and the location of the chalet that was in deep snow has none in GE.

Regards,

Zuletzt geändert von browj2 am 23.01.2014, 21:17, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

John C.B.

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terrypin schrieb am 23.01.2014 um 22:29 Uhr

Thanks John, very helpful. You're clearly making great progress. If I do end up getting VdG, this thread will be a solid starting point!

I'm afraid you're stuck with GE's latest photo data. Day into night (or dusk or dawn) yes, and add clouds, but seasonal changes no.

You could always try different map sources and try to find one with a more appropriate look. Type some coordinates into the pair of boxes here
http://toolserver.org/~geohack/
and you'll get lots to play with. Bing is one I sometimes use as a GE alternative, especially if the location has Birds Eye view data.

GE can, of course, itself create a route from a suitable GPX file. If, as in the example below, the file was produced with GPS then the GE animation has the arguable merit of representing real time, breaks and all.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/GE-Animation.mp4

P.S. Hmm, I'm learning something new about Dropbox. I wasn't clear why that link causes a (slow) download to my Downloads folder, yet yours opens immediately. It seems that the distinction is that the MP4 was in my Public folder and the WMV below (which plays immediately) was not. Puzzling...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pauhftd0c12gek/GE-Animation.wmv

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zuletzt geändert von terrypin am 24.01.2014, 12:19, insgesamt 10-mal geändert.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 24.01.2014 um 05:29 Uhr

Hi Terry,

I will look at geohack tomorrow.

I took a quick look at Bing. The islands have a lower density in bird's eye view than GE. I will probably go with the normal Google maps, as they are clearer than the satellite view, except where the picture helps tell the story. The chalet in Charlevoix looked pretty good, just can't see the snowmobile trails where we snowshoed.

Of your files in Dropbox, the mp4 was problematic and I didn't wait for it to show up; the wmv's ok. The first wmv opened in the browser to my Dropbox account, the second opened Windows Media Player automatically.

Impressive walk you did; 0-600ft, then down and up over 800ft.

I had a few more eureka moments during the day. Maybe it was the cold, -21C Thursday morning, -17 just after I sent the last message and took the dog for a 1 hour walk.

For the blue backdrop, I though of Xara and imported the GE of the island, created a rectangle and gave the colour (more or less because it varies) of the sea around the island. Looks a lot better.

In Xara, I stitched together maps of parts of the island resulting in a better resolution than just from the zoomed out image in GE.

In VdG, I deposited the map image at about the equator after making it sufficiently small. This eliminated the distortion of placing a rectangular map above the 49th parallel. If one wants shadows, then it is a matter of playing with the date and time to get the desired effect.

There was an offer from Magix recently for the upgrade to PhotoStory on DVD 2014 includig a free VdG6, for 50$. I did not take them up on this and instead spent my money on the VdG8 with the added maps.

I think I will put together a video tutorial, going from GE to Xara to VdG to MEP, just to show others how it can be done.

Simple things, but one has to think of them.

Zuletzt geändert von browj2 am 24.01.2014, 05:29, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

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terrypin schrieb am 24.01.2014 um 16:54 Uhr

 

The chalet in Charlevoix looked pretty good, just can't see the snowmobile trails where we snowshoed.

 

Would it be possible to make another image from another map showing the trails and overlay that with some transparency over the GE terrain?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

Zuletzt geändert von terrypin am 24.01.2014, 16:54, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 24.01.2014 um 17:44 Uhr

HiTerry,

Your message jogged my memory. I am sure that I saw somewhere a map of the trails. I will look this up. It's not really that important as what I have done will fit nicely as an introduction to the snowshoeing and the special effects of my wife and friends vanishing on the trail (beam me up type of effect) will complete it. I am planning to do a little tutorial on dubbing in MEP using Music Maker that uses my snowshoeing fx. There are some problems with MMM that the MEP user needs to know about MMM as it automatically modifies the duration of the imported video unless a certain parameter is turned off. Not obvious.

For now, I will get back to my VdG tutorial before I forget what I did. And then complete the vacation video with the maps before I forget where we went.

Another task for today - taking a look at the Pixelan effects. I downloaded 4 trial packages and have only looked at one. So much to do, so little time.

I would still like to know if anyone has used the VdG Streetmaps and what they think of them.

Regards,

Zuletzt geändert von browj2 am 24.01.2014, 17:44, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

johnebaker schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 01:19 Uhr

Hi Terry

. . . . I'm learning something new about Dropbox. I wasn't clear why that link causes a (slow) download to my Downloads folder, yet yours opens immediately . . . 

Is it Dropbox ?

Did you make the mp4 streamable - if you didn't the whole file has to be downloaded before it will start to play hence the huge delay.

John

Zuletzt geändert von johnebaker am 25.01.2014, 01:19, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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terrypin schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 11:11 Uhr

Morning John,

 

"Did you make the mp4 streamable..."

No - to be honest I'd never noticed that option before!

Hang on, I'll try a tiny example using my normal settings but with that option enabled:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MP4-Streamable.jpg

Let's first see if that plays OK here.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/Streamable.mp4

Edit 1:  No, that still caused my Firefox browser to download it rather than open it.

Edit 2: But that's because I had FF > Tools > Options > Applications > MPEG-4 set to 'Save file'!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/FF-MPEG4-Options.jpg

After changing it to Use MPC-HC (Default) it did just that. And the VLC plugin option also worked OK. All of that was with the streamable version. I'll try again now with the earlier MP4 that was exported 'normally', i.e. not streamable.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/GE-Animation.mp4

That did play in FF OK, but only after a long download delay.

Now I'll re-export that as streamable and finish the tests.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/GE-Animation-Streamable.mp4

OK, that played in FF (under the VLC plugin) as it should, but only after the long download delay.

So bottom line seems to be that it makes no difference.

Is there another setting I've missed that will allow immediate playback? I see that the manual recommends this streamable option is used with Export to website, which doesn't seem relevant here. And anyway after a test I see that created a folder, not a single file.

John C.B: Your link https://www.dropbox.com/s/cgozpjk3ldf71rd/Test%20VdG%20routes.MP4

opens immediately, with a play button. I'm guessing that you placed your MP4 in a Dropbox folder other than Public? Which reinforces my suspicion that all this is related to the distinction I mentioned initially about which Dropbox folder the file is in.

I emailed Dropbox yesterday about that and got the following reply this morning, which surprised me:

"You are definitely right, the links used from the Public folder are different than from your other shared folders or anywhere else in your account.

This is because the Public folder uses different types of links that were designed before the Dropbox team had created shared links. The Public folder has also been deprecated, so I'd recommend only using shared links from locations other than the Public folder."

I've been using my Public folder for all my sharing, assuming that was its intended purpose. The others are for my private use or sharing with family. What folder are you guys using? I bet it's not \Public!

As a final test I've moved the MP4 (non-streamable) out of \Public and into \Videos and here is its link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09pxddjlpn6tmwr/GE-Animation.mp4

Eureka! That behaves exactly as John C.B's link, proving that the issue was indeed down to this surprising Dropbox distinction.

So, if \Public is to be avoided for sharing, what exactly is its purpose? Is there any positive feature of it? I've asked Dropbox...

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

 

Zuletzt geändert von terrypin am 25.01.2014, 12:51, insgesamt 19-mal geändert.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 13:47 Uhr

Good morning,

It's too early for me, need coffee.

I am relatively new to Dropbox and I only started using the shared link option a few days ago. I was using shared folders but they are not public, only for those I give access to. When I looked up how to share a file, the answer was under Share a link, so yes Terry, that was how I did it. The folder is not shared publicly. I read something from Dropbox about the security on a shared link. The link that is provided in no way is traceable to the account or folder from which it came, thus making it accessible to the public by itself whilst keeping the folder secure. The public cannot find or access the folder or anything else in it.

For my housekeeping, I created a couple of folders for communities into which I place the files to be shared and then I request the shared link to each file individually, as per Dropbox instructions. Thus I am not carrying any legacy public folders. I wasn't aware that there were other options.

Regards,

Zuletzt geändert von browj2 am 25.01.2014, 13:47, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

terrypin schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 15:22 Uhr

Afternoon John!

If I ever knew, I've forgotten your location? What's the time zone difference with GMT? (Add 1 for MAGIX time, of course.) it's about 2.20 pm (14:20) here.

I've now discovered that this Dropbox issue arises from the radical change they made last summer. See the many relevant hits to my search for 'Dropbox public folder change'.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dropbox+public+folder+change&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

So it doesn't affect recent new users like you and Carl (not sure about John B?), only longer termers like me.

Having said that, I'm still not really clear just how it affects me, apart from in future avoiding placing videos in that 'deprecated' public folder. (I'm sure they used to work OK, but presumably there's now no way for me to check that properly).

I've never explicitly made the folder itself public. Only those to whom I give a link can access the file. At least, that's what I've assumed and I hope I haven't been kidding myself. I'd simply move all the files out into separate folders, (which would also make the files easier to find), but that would remove access to my hundreds of previous MEP images and videos, and the same in other forums.

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 16:31 Uhr

Hi Terry,

I'm in Montreal. Here is a bad webcam shot out my window through the screen. We had a bit of snow this morning, to go with the rest of it. It's -9C, a heat wave!

Here is some info from Dropbox about links:

Note: If you share a link to a video, the recipient will be able to watch up to 15 minutes of it on the preview page on the Dropbox website. For a longer video, the recipient will need to download the file or watch from the Dropbox mobile app to see all of it.

For our advanced users

Your links are secure! When you get a link, Dropbox creates a unique token used only in that link. It is almost impossible to guess the token, but even if someone was able to, they'd have to know the name of the folder and files the link points to. That said, if you publish the link on a website or somewhere public, anybody can use the link and the website where your link is posted might even be included in search engines.

Also note, when you choose to create a link to a folder, everything in the folder and its sub-folders will be accessible from the link. Move items out of the folder or remove the link if you no longer wish to make these files accessible from a link.

For Shared Folders:

Shared folders are ideal for groups of people who work on the same files together. When you create a shared folder and add other people to it, its files will appear in their Dropbox just as they do in yours. Any member of the folder can add, delete, or edit files within that folder.

If I understand correctly, with a shared folder, the other party sharing it needs Dropbox and can access and up/download files to it. Whereas with a link, the video or image shows up automatically in the browser. I noticed that with the video that you posted, there is a button allowing me to download it, either as a Direct Download or to my Dropbox. But there is no such option with an image. The only option I see with a right click is "Save picture as."

Does this give me the same resolution as the original or is there another way to download these?

I ask because I did a "Save as" of your hike and although the image resolution looked good, it was too low to be used in VdG as a map; VdG refused it. I brought it into Xara and exported it at a higher resolution before VdG would accept it.

I gave my niece a link to a photo folder last night. Seeing what a link seems to do, I also just Shared the folder with her. She wants to download and print the photos.

In Dropbox, one can see the shared folders and files under Sharing, and the links under Links. I noticed that I have linked folders that I do not remember ever linking. Perhaps I was just playing around then and wanted sharing not linking. Memory overload, I guess. Time to do some cleaning up. I just have to be careful to not remove any links that need to be kept.

Thanks for bringing this up. It makes Dropbox more useful to me.

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John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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johnebaker schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 17:11 Uhr

Hi

. . . . So it doesn't affect recent new users like you and Carl (not sure about John B?), only longer termers like me. . . .

I like you Terry am an 'older' user of Dropbox so I have a public folder - luckily they are not dropping it for us - it will still be there and accessible.

I am in the middle of testing your theory about 'that all this is related to the distinction I mentioned initially about which Dropbox folder the file is in.'

I am putting up two mp4 files, one non streamable version, is an exported from MEP the other is a copy of the exported file that has been run through MP4 Faststart into a folder  - not the Public one - to carry out some tests.

John

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Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

terrypin schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 17:17 Uhr

Hi John

I regard it as cold here this afternoon, at +9C!

Most of my photo sharing is via Flickr, mainly from my son in California to me, with a high proportion being my two grandsons. So apart from a few experiments way back I've had no need to use 'shared folders'.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

terrypin schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 17:23 Uhr

Hi John,

 

FastStart is a new one to me!

 

Look forward to results of both tests.

 

Have you been using \Public for your posts here, as I have? Any videos or only images?

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 25.01.2014 um 19:01 Uhr

Hi Terry,

Everything is relative, and we adapt to the environment. I'll send this and throw another log on the fire.

I only used Dropbox links for my posts. I haven't done many and did not know about the streaming option. I have never heard of Faststart either. I never upload anything to Dropbox or the Online Album from inside a Magix product,  except for web design using Xara and the upload feature in Manage Contents of the Online Album. I prefer to export to my hd and view the result first.

I use Magix Online Album to share videos, slideshows and music with selected friends and relatives. My wife is a musician, thus the music part. Magix Online is a bit cumbersome, but once you get it figured out it works well.

As an aside, this morning I was ripping photos from a slideshow video VOB of my sister's wedding from 2 years ago (she just turned 70). I don’t have the photos and the slideshow was done by a paid-for photographer. I am scandalized - the photographer never even bothered to rotate the photos, so a quarter of the photos are on their side. Disgusting, and he charged for tbis.

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John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

johnebaker schrieb am 26.01.2014 um 15:16 Uhr

Hi

@ Terry

After quite a lot of testing I have come to the following conclusion about playing video from Dropbox.

I suspect when you upload video to Dropbox it gets the metadata from the file and stores or moves it to the start of the file ( as MP4 Fast Start and MEP do - see below) to make the file streamable.

As a check I tried the same tests using my web hosting and Flash Player and JW Player and for both cases the mp4 which was set to stream played almost immediately but the non streamed version had to download first.

Now I my quest is to find out how they are doing it   .

Bringing the topic back to MEP    - as far as MEP is concerned if you want a single software solution, then setting the advanced option Export as website - sets the mp4 to be streamable, and you get the website parts needed which you can customise, and can be used on any website .

MP4 files metadata is normally stored at the end of the file, this metadata contains the length, video size and other parameters the players need - so to get to this data the whole file has to be downloaded to the player before it can get the information needed to play it at the correct size etc.

By making the mp4 streamable the metadata is placed at the beginning of the file so the player gets this information first and sets itself up to play the rest of the file as it downloads.

Note - this applies to MP4s only, other formats are different or have the metadata at the beginning of the file.

John

 

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VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

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Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

terrypin schrieb am 26.01.2014 um 16:31 Uhr

Hi John,

Hi

@ Terry

After quite a lot of testing I have come to the following conclusion about playing video from Dropbox.

I suspect when you upload video to Dropbox it gets the metadata from the file and stores or moves it to the start of the file ( as MP4 Fast Start and MEP do - see below) to make the file streamable.

Not sure if you're referring to a streamable or non-streamable file (i.e. with the MEP export option checked or unchecked)?

As a check I tried the same tests using my web hosting

Dropbox? Vimeo?

 

and Flash Player and JW Player

You're losing me here! Is this via plugins on your browser? (Firefox? MSIE?)

and for both cases the mp4 which was set to stream played almost immediately but the non streamed version had to download first.

Now I my quest is to find out how they are doing it   .

Bringing the topic back to MEP    - as far as MEP is concerned if you want a single software solution, then setting the advanced option Export as website - sets the mp4 to be streamable, and you get the website parts needed which you can customise, and can be used on any website .

But how would that help for posting here?

MP4 files metadata is normally stored at the end of the file, this metadata contains the length, video size and other parameters the players need - so to get to this data the whole file has to be downloaded to the player before it can get the information needed to play it at the correct size etc.

By making the mp4 streamable the metadata is placed at the beginning of the file so the player gets this information first and sets itself up to play the rest of the file as it downloads.

Note - this applies to MP4s only, other formats are different or have the metadata at the beginning of the file.

John

 

I'm confused!

Going back to basics, what happens when you play back an MP4 video link you posted here? IOW, when you click on your link when you duly see it in the thread? Is it the same as I reported? And no difference based on whether it was exported from MEP with or without the streamable option checked?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 26.01.2014 um 20:08 Uhr

Hi John and Terry,

I'm a little lost too.

You mention the advanced option setting. I can only find this under Burning, Burn, Encoder Settings. I don’t see any optionto "export as website. On page 308 in the manual I see this, but not on the screen. Is there some other way to get to advanced settings? Why would it be under Burn when one wants to export, not burn? There is no options button or selection in the Export part. I am using 2014 and the settings may not be the same.

Thus how does one export to create the mp4 type file that you mentioned? See below as I may have found the solution.

Normally when I export, I go straight to Export, not Burn, and create an mp4. I never used the option to "Export as media player." After reading what it does, I tried it. It produced 3 swf files, and one each of html, mp4 and xml. Is this what you are talking about? 

Magixplayer.swf, magixplayer_audio.swf, magixplayer_loader.swf

Have you ever done this, and if so, how would I use these in Xara Web Designer? Or should I simply just drag the mp4 onto the page? I presume that the files are useful for a website created with a different product.

I did 2 tests. I dragged the mp4 created using Export as Media Player onto the page and it created the player. I did the same with the same project exported as mp4 with qualty setting DVD quality and format MPEG-4. The latter file was half the size of the former. When I viewed the page and ran each video, I noticed the the smaller file had to be loaded, whereas the larger mp4 created as media player played immediately. I presume that this is what you are talking about. Thus it would be better to create the mp4 as a media player if the intention is to upload it to Dropbox, Magix Online Album, or for embedding in a website. Correct?

We off topic, but such is the nature of discussions. To get back a bit to my VdG, combined with the mp4 part, I have almost completed my tutorial. Should I create the mp4 for uploading to the tutorials forum using export as media play, or export as mp4, dvd quality at half the size? Or, as it says in the upload area, if you made the video with Vdlx use "Flashplayer" export format for optimal quality. Which export option gives "Flashplayer" export format?

Thanks,

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John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

johnebaker schrieb am 26.01.2014 um 22:49 Uhr

Hi

Lets see if I can clear up the following:

@ Terry

. . . . Not sure if you're referring to a streamable or non-streamable file (i.e. with the MEP export option checked or unchecked)? . . .

Does not matter - whichever option the file appears to be made streamable by Dropbox, likewise with Vimeo, Youtube, the forum etc, ie they are converting the file.

. . . using my web hosting . . . Dropbox? Vimeo? . . . and Flash Player and JW Player . . .

Neither - on one of my own websites hosted with 1 & 1, MEP generates code to use Flash Player and I copied this and altered the code to use JW Player. 

. . . Is this via plugins on your browser . . .

In the case of Flash Player - yes, in the case of JW Player no - the player is downloaded, with the rest of the required HTML page etc, from my web site before the video streams.

. . . . But how would that help for posting here? . . . what happens when you play back an MP4 video link you posted here . . .

Does not, when posting here, video is converted to make it stream - so I see the same as you do.

@ John CB

. . . Is there some other way to get to advanced settings? . . .

AFAIK this is available in Plus and Premium versions and is on the Export, Video as mp4, Advanced option as shown here.

 

. . . .Export as media player . . . Have you ever done this, and if so, how would I use these in Xara Web Designer . . .

That is how I created the test files. Xara Web Designer has a widget for video which automatically creates the correct code when you add the video widget onto the web page and tell it which video file you need.

. . . .  I noticed the the smaller file had to be loaded, whereas the larger mp4 created as media player played immediately. I presume that this is what you are talking about . . .

Correct - if you ran the mp4 through MP4 FastStart then you will find it streams correctly.

. . . . Thus it would be better to create the mp4 as a media player if the intention is to upload it to Dropbox, Magix Online Album, or for embedding in a website. Correct? . . .

Yes this ensures that it streams correctly, independant of whether it is converted or not.

. . . . We off topic . . .

Definitely   however this topic is one of those that deviates wildly as other issues crop up during the conversation and often need testing and where possible explaining.

. . . . Should I create the mp4 for uploading to the tutorials forum using export as media play, or export as mp4, dvd quality at half the size? Or, as it says in the upload area, if you made the video with Vdlx use "Flashplayer" export format for optimal quality. . . .

This may sound odd, but I don't normally use these - I normally export as 720 * 576 mpg because I find the Magix converter sometimes does not convert mp4 correctly - you get the green screen you often see in the Show and Discuss section.  If I need 720p quality then I use mp4.

I don't think there is a pressing need to export as 1080p, it just gives a bigger file size with very little gain in quality compared to 720p when playing from the Internet.

Additionally - for the likes of Youtube, Vimeo etc they have a help page which details the best settings to use.

. . . . Which export option gives "Flashplayer" export format? . . . .

You may need this option checked

 

These are the standard options - red arrows,  the yellow arrow indicates a custom preset I created and saved for testing purposes - using the disc icon top right of the dialog after adjusting the settings

 

HTH - see how the topic wanders again

John

 

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Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

terrypin schrieb am 27.01.2014 um 17:07 Uhr

 

Hi John and Terry,

I'm a little lost too.

You mention the advanced option setting. I can only find this under Burning, Burn, Encoder Settings. I don’t see any optionto "export as website. On page 308 in the manual I see this, but not on the screen.

John,

That Montreal temperature is clearly getting the better of you! The Advanced setting was in my earlier composite screenshot. Here it is again, arrowed:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP-AdvancedSettings.jpg

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)

browj2 schrieb am 27.01.2014 um 18:17 Uhr

Hi John and Terry,

I had a lot of trouble trying to find the options; I was looking in the wrong place, under the Export and Burn buttons at the top right of the screen. Found them simply under File - Export movie - Video as Mpeg-4.

I just exported my video as a FlashPlayer file using 720x526, 25fps. This created the same files as selecting "Export as media player" under the Export button, except that the default and only possibility is "HD quality 1 (1280x720)." So to get a smaller file size, the solution is to go through the other route, the File-Export movie route, and select a better option. Seems strange that MEP does not have any other options under the "Export as media player" screen.

Thanks,

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John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

johnebaker schrieb am 27.01.2014 um 19:49 Uhr

Hi John and Terry

And I did not see anywhere in the conversations which version of MEP was being discussed.  The advanced option image I posted is from 2014 and is the same in MX - wonder why it was changed in 2013?

John

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VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 24H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

browj2 schrieb am 27.01.2014 um 19:57 Uhr

I'm using 2014 Plus.

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John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2025 Platinum; Music Maker 2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

terrypin schrieb am 27.01.2014 um 21:39 Uhr

 

And I did not see anywhere in the conversations which version of MEP was being discussed.  The advanced option image I posted is from 2014 and is the same in MX - wonder why it was changed in 2013?

John

Looks the same to me.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP2013-MP4ExportSettings.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/MEP2014-MP4ExportSettings.jpg

 

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

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Terry, East Grinstead, UK. PC: i7 6700K, 4.0 GHz, 32GB with Win 10 pro. Used many earlier versions of MEPP, currently mainly MEPP 2016 & 2017 (Using scores of macro scripts to add functionality, tailored to these versions.)